[Marxism] Joseph Weydemeyer and the Roswell Crash
cbrown at michiganlegal.org
Mon Mar 6 10:12:54 MST 2006
You cite as a national party that pursued a "party line" during the
Civil War a Communist Club in NYC in 1857-58. The club had Marxists in it,
but it also had non-Marxists. Many of the German labor groups at the time
were actually former affiliates of Wilhelm Weitling's ARBEITERBUND. (Read
Levine, Foner, etc., etc., etc.--or my own article on the subject in the
ENCYCLOPEDIA OF U.S. LABOR AND WORKING CLASS HISTORY.)
CB: So, what you now admit that there was a Communist Club in NYC or not ?
Now you not only "remember" that there was a Communist Club in NYC, but you
claim to know the "lines" being pursued in it .
I didn't say that there weren't other lines. The point is that were Marxists
struggling for the Marxist line. Weydemeyer was a main leader in this.
Again, you change subjects and pretend not to read what I've written.
CB: No I didn't change subjects or pretend not to read what you have
written. I'm writing on several subjects. That's ok. The same subjects from
the start are still here , and new ones are added on in the course of the
You suggested that the US military was more likely to get the Anaconda
strategy because they were familiar with Engels from an article in an
encyclopedia because it had "American" in the title.
CB: That would be discard the Anaconda strategy, I believe, no ?
I suggested that
they probably had lots of better sources for a military education than an
encyclopedia. You twist that into an assertion by me that they were more
likely to read foreign tracts than American ones. This is truly mental
CB: You said:
"Charles then suggests that, because "American" was in the title of the one
of the publications, "this might be a way that Engels would be known to
American military officials as a military expert from before the war." (Yes,
U.S. military and civil authorities didn't read detailed English or foreign
stuff on tactics, drill, etc. They read encyclopedias with "American" in
CB: Of course, you are being sarcastic, and I am replying to you as if you
are being straight. You mean that the U.S. military and civil authorities
_did_ read detailed English and foreign stuff on tactics, drill, etc. Well,
in response to your "straight" meaning there's one booklet by Engels on
English military we've found. So, Engels writing on the military was in
America and Europe.
ML: You say that Weydemeyer waged a successful campaign against the
guerillas in Missouri. When I questioned this, you could have only
begun to answer this question by discussing how Weydemeyer was fighting
CB; No, I could and did begin to answer this by looking to another source as
to whether there were Confederate guerrillas in Missouri in this time
period. Low and behold the source I went to said there were Confederate
guerrillas in Missouri at this time. This doesn't demonstrate that
Weydemeyer fought them of course, but it is a necessary precondition for him
to fight them, i.e. that there _were_ Confederate guerillas there at all.
Then it turns out that this non-International Publishers source , straightup
American Heritage, says that Franz Sigel, Weydemeyer's comrade from 1848 won
a battle. But most importantly the term "guerillas" is used to describe the
Confederates in Missouri there and for the next few years.
Indeed, if you were an ordinarily dishonest person, you might have tried to
fudge it by discussing a fight between Weydemeyer and Confederate
regulars...or maybe a fight between Union soldiers other than Weydemeyer and
Instead, you misrepresent me as saying there were no Confederate
gueillas in Missouri and give us a paragraph on the battle with
Confederate regualars in which Weydemeyer did not participate. That's what
I mean when I say that you take dishonesty to surreal heights...and then
jump off flapping your arms....
CB: Yes, but in saying it you demonstrate yet another time that if anybody
acts dislexic in this exchange it is you. What American Heritage says is
that "for three more years ( after the defeat of Confeds at Pea Ridge in
1862) _guerilla_ (emphasis added -CB) would ravage the state, but the Union
grip on Missouri was now secure."
Now it only remains to show they Weydemeyer was fighting in Missouri at this
time ( the biography already assets that he led fights against Confeds in
Missouri at that time).
The reason I object to this stuff so much, Charles, is that many good people
have invested years, decades and lifetimes of serious work in figuring these
things out. Not the least of these was your former comrade Phil Foner.
And what you do basically treat their hard-won achievements as unworthy of
CB: So what does Phillip Foner say about Weydemeyer , Engels etc. in
relation to the U.S. Civil War ?
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