[Marxism] Do you agree or disagree with the following proposition ?
cbrown at michiganlegal.org
Thu Mar 30 20:26:04 MST 2006
Mark Lause ;
The genius of Marx, Engels (and all the earlier socialists, as well, if
the truth be told) was the recognition that there is absolutely nothing
"natural" about the capitalist system.
CB: Well, even the capitalist system can't be absolutely not "natural" ,
because people have got to survive biologically even in capitalism. Even
under capitalism, people still have physiological requirements. This is the
same issue that Marx and Engels had to explain to the "Germans". Not
getting it is a fundamental form of idealist philosophy , religion, claiming
that everything human is "supernatural" , absolutely nothing is "natural",
Capitalism, feudalism and slavery can't be unnatural in the sense of not
providing enough food, water etc. to some mass of people, and providing for
reproduction. Capitalism must provide a minimum of use-values of a certain
However, capitalism isn't the only way to organize producing the minimum of
necessary use-values to meet biological needs. Human society can be
organized another way and meet biological needs.
Marx and Engels refute the bourgeois claim that capitalism developed out of
feudalism as natural process, and that capitalism is the most natural
organization of human society.
Nothing in humanity or nature to
make what we see around us a "necessity."
CB: This is philosophical idealism. It is a necessity that you obey the law
of gravity. It is a necessity that you and a lot of other people eat, drink,
breathe, sleep and have your body temperature in a certain range. If you and
the rest of the human race don't have these necessities met, there will be
no capitalism, no feudalism, no slavery, no hunting and gathering and
gardening and no socialism or communism, old or new. These are necessities
for all forms of human society. All forms of human society must meet these
biological minimums, "must' means they are a necessity.
The search for "natural" rationalizations of human affair has
historically been a preoccupation of the ideologues of capitalism.
CB: Human affairs are naturally determined to the extent that all human
affairs must meet certain biological necessities. There are many ways to
meet these, as human history has shown. Many other aspects of human affairs
go on that are not part of meeting the biological minimum and are therefore
not determined by biology. Every human society has many affairs that are
determined by cultural ideals ,not biology. The only biological
determination on these many affairs is that they not violate the minimum,
otherwise they are free, in the sense that necessity is mastered, freeing
humans to do many non-necessary "affairs".
Ignoring natural necessities is a "mark", haha, of idealist philosophical
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