[Marxism] China and Stalin
donaloc at hotmail.com
Wed Nov 22 06:20:35 MST 2006
>Stalin's crime in selling the lives of the Chinese
Communists in Shanghai to the KMT in 1927 contributed directly to the
revolution in China to 1949. Any other assertion is an attempt to distort
JD, where did you learn your history? The Trotskyist school of fabrications?
Stalin didn't sell anyone's lives. What for? The situation in Shanghai
wasn't as simple as you present. Mao wrote that the repression was
aggravated by an overly lax attitude to relations with the Nationalists and
demilitarisation. When he got there it was already too late. The subsequent
attempts to overturn the situation led to further defeats. The critical
thing is to visit it from the lens of the party leadership not from outside
and using categories of analysis alien to the concrete situation. I believe
Lenin's single most telling quote is 'truth is never abstract, all truth is
concrete'. That's where we must base an assessment of what they did right
and wrong on the ground. From their perceptions of reality.
If Stalin contributed 'directly' to the derailment of the Chinese revolution
from 1927 to 1949. I suppose it happened to succeed despite him and the
Soviet aid he provided.
Of far more interest to those who really want to know what was happening in
China in this period are the writings of people like Mao himself or those
others who led the *successful* revolution there whilst Trotsky was being
lauded by imperialists 'society' and calling for the overthrow of the Soviet
Union as the only way to save the revolution! I just remember he said that
the Soviet Union wouldn't win unless it had a revolution and overthrew
Stalin. Strangely, his tendency for idealised overgeneralisation got that
one wrong too.
I think that Trotsky is worthy reading in the period up to 1928 - when he
still had a grasp of what was happening in Russia - even if you don't have
to agree with him entirely. His writings after this period fall down I think
though. More critically, his writings as a Menshevic are much more dangerous
as they are objectively wrong in many cases e.g his underestimation of
imperialism. In virtually every case where he clashed with Lenin he was
wrong - in particular about permanent revolution.
But I don't expect people to exhibit perfect judgement all the time, he did
very well much better than maybe 99% of others. Not everything he wrote
about Stalinism was wrong - in fact much justified indeed. He was not
innocent of the same charges himself though, not entirely. His reputation as
a theoretician is deserved although those that followed him were pigmies in
comparison. My problem is the oversimplification of one side, White, the
Incidentally, Mao who was quite critical of Stalin at times, was far less
positive towards the Trotskyists who appear to have been arguing strategy
from economic categories inherited from marx developed in Western Europe and
trying to apply them to a colony of great backwardness. Mao treated them as
For his 'selling to death of the communists', Stalin was lauded in China
under Mao. Even after 1957, Mao still quoted him and adjudged him, was it,
70% right and 30% wrong.
In the grand scale of things that's not too bad. I think. Obviously Trotsky
was 100% by your assessment. I don't think so.
Your lies about China are chronic revisionism and massive
oversimplification. You have clearly never made a point of reading all sides
to the dispute.
However, I'll steer away as we're not meant to be revisiting
Trotsky-vs-Stalin/Mao for the nth time. I haven't the time to educate you or
What is important is action. It is precisely that content of my emails that
you studiously avoid. Does that say anything about you?
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