[Marxism] The criticism ofreligion[was:RE:Vnzla:reasonstobeoptimistic]

Marvin Gandall marvgandall at videotron.ca
Mon Aug 27 22:51:42 MDT 2007

Louis wrote:

> What this has to do with the oldest political party in the USA is a
> mystery to me. Workers know what they are getting with the DP, they have
> seen in it power since before Abe Lincoln. It was a party that stood for
> slavery, that promoted imperial expansion, that backed the KKK during
> Reconstruction, that approved dropping nuclear weapons twice "just to
> teach the Russkies a lesson", that presided over the death of over
> 500,000 North Koreans and twice that many in Vietnam, that invaded the
> Dominican Republic, etc.

> ...So why do you want us to orient to the party that is
> responsible for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. By comparison, all Lula ever did
> was get drunk from time to time and wink at corruption.>

 >Unlike you, I think that workers should confront the
> ANC, Sinn Fein et al. It doesn't matter to me that I am in a small
> minority at this time around the question of the DP. So were the
> abolitionists in the 1830s. If you want to cozy up to the party that
> Frederick Douglass opposed, be my guest.
a) While US white workers are infected by the racism and chauvinism endemic
to an imperialist power, I don't hold them responsible as you do for the
historical crimes committed by the leaders in both parties. If I did, it
would be a matter of indifference to me whether they replaced their current
leaders, which it isn't;

b) While their consciousness leaves them vulnerable to the deceptions of
their leaders, most Democrats oppose the war in Iraq as they earlier opposed
the war in Vietnam. You caricature them as accomplices to racism and
imperialism, which is at variance with your earlier post acknowleging that
US workers in the large urban centres, who are very strongly Democratic,
have been prominent in the anti-racist, anti-imperialist, and other
progressive movements in US hisotry;

c) The relationship of the working classes to the DP and the social
democratic parties is contradictory one - they look to them to defend their
gains against the forces to the right of these parties which want to take
them away, but they are frequently disappointed that these left of centre
parties don't satisfy their expectations of further gains and govern like
the right parties in some (but not all) respects. My response to your
suggestion that "unlike you, I think that workers should confront the ANC,
Sinn Fein, et al" is: "Indiscriminately, all the time, over every issue?"
Given the present alternatives, I doubt even their more disgruntled members,
who I think have a good appreciation of the contradictory nature of their
parties, would favour their being replaced in government.

d) You describe the above as "cozying up to the party that Frederick Douglas
opposed". Leaving aside that the Democrats were then, unlike today, the
party of the reactionary Southern slaveholders and the Republicans the party
of the more progressive Northerners, it's clear the world's oppressed
peoples and their leaders saw the victory of the DP in the last
congressional elections as a positive development and would like to see it
extended with the replacement of Bush by a Democrat rather than a
Republican. I don't expect the Cubans, Iranians, and others have any
illusions that a Democratic admininstration would act otherwise than to try
to advance US imperialist interests, but they also appear to believe that
they would have more of an opportunity within this framework, and despite
the DP's bellicose electoral posturing, to normalize relations with the US -
not least because of the different social forces which each party
represents. I think that's a correct assessment. I expect they'd also like
to see the DP ranks organized to put maximum pressure on the DP leadership
to move in this direction, and that they would see efforts towards this end
as somewhat other than "cozying up" to the party.

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