[Marxism] (no subject)
gary.maclennan at gmail.com
Sun Oct 21 15:24:25 MDT 2007
I am sorry I didn't inform you before that I was traveling to Africa for a
program called "Empowering Youth to Fight Racism, HIV/AIDS, Poverty and Lack
of Education, this program is taking place in three major countries in
Africa which is Ghana, South Africa and Nigeria.
I have found myself in a terrible situation as I'm stranded in Nigeria
because I forgot my lil bag in the Taxi where my money, passport, documents
and other valuable things were kept on my way to the Hotel and am facing a
hard time here because I have no more money with me and right now am owing
the hotel, the bill of $ 1500 and they want me to pay the bill soon or they
are gonna seize my bag and hand me over to the Hotel Management, I need this
help from you urgently to help me back home, all I need from you is to lend
me the money to pay the hotel bill and I also need $500 to feed and help
myself back home, this is why am sending you this email, please I need you
to lend me $2,000 to have my problems here solved. I need this help so much
and in time because I am in a terrible and tight situation.
I will really appreciate any amount you can afford to send me if you can't
afford the $2,000 and I promise to pay you back your money as soon as I
return home. Please let me know asap in order for me to forward you the
details you need to send the money to me. I understand for charges, it could
cost some extra to send money through western union, I promise to return all
charges incurred back to you, this is the only way I can receive money down
Hope to read from you soon.
On 10/21/07, Michael Karadjis <mkaradjis at theplanet.net.au> wrote:
> Walter sent a message claiming the DSP is on a "campaign" to show China
> is capitalist, that we "invariably have nothing but negative things to
> say about China's policies in the world today," that perhaps we might
> even "bend to the pressure" if the US "escalates" what he thinks is its
> "hostility" to China etc. I had responded to all these points on the
> Green Left list, so I'll just attach below what I wrote there about
> these same points he repeats.
> Before that, a couple of new points:
> Firstly, in this post, Walter says "It seems that the DSP isn't entirely
> certain about whether or not China really IS capitalist"
> Me: ????????
> Secondly, the DSP does not hold the view that China is imperialist.
> Obviously, that doesn't mean it isn't a point worth discussing here, and
> members will express their own thinking on this. But as far as
> "political tasks flowing from a theoretical position" go, we of course
> defend China against any US attack, regardless of what views we may hold
> on China's role in a whole number of areas.
> Now the post:
> > Those who think China is capitalist, or even "imperialist" as Rohan
> > and other have said, have basically come out on the side of those in
> > the capitalist west against China.
> In what way Walter? How is having a theoretical view that China has
> turned capitalist siding with the west against China? Do we advocate an
> imperialist war against China? Actually considering how completely tied
> together the US and Chinese economies are, this appears unlikely anyway.
> If it were to occur, we would of course be militantly on the side of
> China, of course. Do you have any reason to doubt this. Actually one of
> the problems with the very question is the idea that the west is on some
> huge campaign against China, of the kind for example it is on against
> Cuba and Venezuela, or capitalist countries like Iran. Sorry but I just
> don't see it. Mild chiding here and there more like it.
> > Next, I suppose, they'll begin to
> > demand a boycott of the Beijing Olympics as well.
> Who is "they"? I hope you are not including the DSP in such a
> ridiculously unfounded statement.
> > I do notice that among those who think China is capitalist, there
> > is a general tendency to bash China on all levels internationally.
> Again where is your evidence for this? I can't think of any myself.
> Where have we "bashed" China in relation to international issues? We do
> not agree with China's alliance with the Burmese junta, for example. But
> nowhere have our publications singled out China for particular criticism
> on this, as some liberals have. Actually we've tended to emphasise the
> links between western multi-nationals and the junta, not to mention the
> links between Australian and Burmese repressive forces. Do we oppose
> China's links with Cuba?
> > The DSP is on a campaign all over the planet earth by way of the
> > Internet to declare the capitalism has been restored in China
> Which "campaign" whether "all over the planet" or not? We hold a view.
> When there are discussions on the internet we express our view. So what?
> That's not a "campaign". In fact far from campaigning, the main times we
> express this view is in response to others, often yourself, who express
> a different view. Expressing differing views on the internet is not a
> campaign. Walter perhaps you have something of an overblown view of the
> greenleft list and marxmail. Each has about 1000 members, of who well
> less than 100 participate. There are 100's of millions of people in our
> two countries, let alone all the other represented on our lists. We are
> not, cannot be, and don't pretend to be any more than that. These 2
> little email lists are not the mass movements in our countries where we
> can "campaign" for anything. It is simply a forum for people who are
> mainly like-minded to share news and views and discuss.
> Even if the US was on a war drive against China, when our public
> campaigning would be about opposing the US and defending China, we would
> hardly hurt that movement if in theoretical debate among the handful of
> people here we expressed the view that China was capitalist, or even if
> some loon was saying it was "fascist". It would make not one iota of
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: marxism-bounces at lists.econ.utah.edu [mailto:marxism-
> > bounces at lists.econ.utah.edu] On Behalf Of Walter Lippmann
> > Sent: Sunday, 21 October 2007 4:59 AM
> > To: 'Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition'
> > Subject: Re: [Marxism] Is China imperialist?
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