[Marxism] Once again on the ANC betrayal of South Africa's poor.

Tom Cod tcod at hotmail.com
Mon Dec 1 12:51:40 MST 2008

so, not living under race segregation and national oppression and having the right to vote are trivial and inconsequential because a socialist revolution has not been ushered in? What kind of muddled ultraleft logic is that? Surely any reasonable person can see the immense historic victory that that represented, a victory for all blacks, including the black working class and humanity in general.  Again, I'd be surprised if this view is that of the ANC political opponents on the black left.  It took only 8 months to overthrow the provisional government and capitalism still exists in S. Africa and has been restored in Russia.  what does that have to do with anything?  The overthrow of the Tsar was an immense victory on its own terms; that a further revolution was ushered in was due to the tenacity of the masses and their leaders in the conditions of the Great War which do not prevail in South Africa today.
Similarly the end of Jim Crow in this country was a historic human rights gain for blacks and black workers and farmers whose ability to organize was less
obstructive than under Bull Conner repression
> > >Surely the black workers movement is in a better position to struggle for its interests now than it was under Botha,> > Please explain how!
What a fatuous question! How was the apartheid fascist police state different from what they have now?  Get outta here!  The repression of blacks and black unions was qualitatively worse under the racist police state.  How many Robben Island prisons have been set up under the ANC?  How many Soweto 
massacres?  How many people submit to the daily degradations of race segregation?  Weren't the black unions outlawed?  weren't its leaders abducted and murdered?  Weren't strikers routinely gunned downed and killed?> This is so different from what happened in South Africa that there's no need to comment on it.
not for black people it wasn't.  Racist South Africa was really little different from a Nazi-Fascist state, in fact the leaders of the National 
Party supported Adolf Hitler and send volunteers to fight with the Nazis in Russia.  No, the difference between what they had under apartheid
and what they had now was essentially the difference between a fascist racist state and bourgois democracy.  Thus what occurred in the 90s was an histc victory on the scale of what occurred in this 1865, thus an imperfect and incomplete revolution.
> - Aaron> 
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