[Marxism] The liberal uproar over Rick Warren

Adam Richmond adambrichmond at yahoo.com
Sat Dec 20 17:20:06 MST 2008

Thanks for making it clear.  You have moved from an ultraleftist cultural radical position to solidarizing with Rick Warren. 

--- On Sat, 12/20/08, David Thorstad <binesi at gvtel.com> wrote:

> From: David Thorstad <binesi at gvtel.com>
> Subject: [Marxism] The liberal uproar over Rick Warren
> To: "Adam Richmond" <adambrichmond at yahoo.com>
> Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 8:44 AM
> After seeing the interview with Rick Warren last night on
> NBC's /Dateline, /all 
> the fuss over Our Savior's selection of him to give the
> invocation at
> the inauguration seems misplaced. First, why the hell
> should there be any 
> appeal to a deity at a presidential inauguration? Why
> don't people 
> complain about this spread of theocracy and instead pick on
> the sky pilot?
>    Second, it is clear that Obama has a conservative
> agenda, and that 
> he picked Warren as an outreach to evangelicals. That is
> smart, from his 
> point of view. People who are bothered by it should not
> have voted for him.
>    Third, Warren is no Jerry Falwell, if he can be
> believed, and he 
> seemed sincere in voicing his views. Yes, he's against
> abortion. But so 
> are many people who are not antigay. I myself support a
> woman's right to 
> choose, and was perhaps the first gay man to march in a
> pro-abortion 
> march in New York City with a sign I made saying "Gays
> Support a Woman's 
> Right to Choose." But I do not consider abortion a
> wonderful thing. 
> Better to practice birth control and avoid the need for
> abortion.
>    Sure, Warren opposes gay marriage. But that does not
> make him 
> antigay. I and many other same-sexers also oppose gay
> marriage, and in 
> my case I oppose all marriage. It's a lousy institution
> and the gay 
> movement is wrongheaded to be pushing for it, just as it is
> for trying 
> to get into the imperialist military and the pass hate
> crimes laws. 
> Moreover, Warren has given millions of dollars to fight
> AIDS, and even 
> gay groups consider this a good deed. He has engaged in
> efforts against 
> poverty. These things make him a far better and less evil
> fundamentalist 
> than many others. I think the liberal homosexuals who are
> gaga over His 
> Hopefulness are demonstrating intolerance and stupidity.
>    Warren's dumbest observation was that for five
> thousand years, marriage
> in all cultures and religions has been defined as being
> between a man and
> a woman. That ignores the many cultures where multiple sex
> partners is
> the norm, or polyamy, or, as in Siwa Oasis, marriage
> between men and boys.
> Marriage between two men or two women may be seen as a
> caricature of
> hetero marriage, especially since the hetero institution is
> mostly a 
> failure, but hetero marriage ceremonies themselves are a
> caricature 
> featuring bizarre rituals and weird clothing. Same-sex
> marriage may be
> beside the point, but it's no less bizarre.
>    Obama is going to be just another president in the
> pocket of Wall 
> Street, big business, and the criminals who run our
> society. So far, his 
> picks for advisers and top positions show that he is barely
> different 
> from McCain.
> David
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