[Marxism] New Deal: Racism, and imperialism
charlesb at cncl.ci.detroit.mi.us
Mon Dec 29 15:12:53 MST 2008
Charles Brown wrote:
>Lou Pro's analysis has to assume that he makes a better assessment
>of the New Deal and FDR on racism and anti-racism than Black people
>themselves did. That's a grievous error on Lou Pro's part. No, Black
>people got it right, and knew where their interests were best being
>served better than Lou's analysis here
Charles, maybe you did not notice the subject heading of the message
you were responding to but it had the word imperialism in it.
CB: Yes, I noticed that . So what ?
the Israeli air force has killed 140 Palestinians and wounded twice
that many. Do you think that the Palestinians deserve to die because
they are not in the American working class?
CB: No. Do you ?
Marx said workers of the
world unite, not just Black and white American workers.
CB: That's true , but it doesn't seem to be responsive to what I wrote. The slogan has been updated to "Black, white, Brown, Red and Yellow unite , and fight." (duh).
Anyway, you were the one talking about Black people specifically in Black people and the New Deal, as if Black people in their majority made a mistake in shifting to supporting the Democratic Party starting with FDR and Truman.
Also, notice the strong Hispanic working class support of Obama. In fact, notice the world wide working class support for O. My position is that the workers of the world ( like Black people in the US) know their self-interest better than you do; and they seem to identify O has their best bet to be US President
inability to say one peep about Obama's ultra-reactionary (you would
probably use the word fascist if it was being carried out by a
Republican) foreign policy agenda
CB: Well, but you aren't talking about the New Deal, which is what I wrote about.
Also, Obama doesn't have a reactionary foreign policy. Actually, he has no foreign policy yet until he gets into office, but what he has been saying is not reactionary.
demonstrates a certain amount of
national chauvinism that has been the Achilles heel of the Stalinist
movement since its inception.
CB: No . I haven't demonstrated any such. That's all in your imagination, imagining that is _your_ Achilles heal, along with your fantastic obsession with "Stalinism". And , of course, I am not a Stalinist. which means you are just repeating your permanent dillusion, not to mention violating one of the principles that _you_ set out for your own list: No Stalin-Trotsky bullshit.
It led the CPUSA to cheer for the
internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII and for the atomic
bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
CB: However, I never supported same. So....
Here is what Lenin had to say
about such national chauvinism:
The last third of the nineteenth century saw the transition to the
new, imperialist era. Finance capital not of one, but of several,
though very few, Great Powers enjoys a monopoly. (In Japan and
Russia the monopoly of military power, vast territories, or special
facilities for robbing minority nationalities, China, etc., partly
supplements, partly takes the place of, the monopoly of modern,
up-to-date finance capital.) This difference explains why England's
monopoly position could remain unchallenged for decades. The monopoly
of modern finance capital is being frantically challenged; the era of
imperialist wars has begun. It was possible in those days to bribe
and corrupt the working class of one country for decades. This is now
improbable, if not impossible. But on the other hand, every
imperialist "Great" Power can and does bribe smaller strata (than in
England in 1848-68) of the "labour aristocracy". Formerly a
"bourgeois labour party", to use Engels's remarkably profound
expression, could arise only in one country, because it alone enjoyed
a monopoly, but, on the other hand, it could exist for a long time.
Now a "bourgeois labour party" is inevitable and typical in all
imperialist countries; but in view of the desperate struggle they are
waging for the division of spoils it is improbable that such a party
can prevail for long in a number of countries. For the trusts, the
financial oligarchy, high prices, etc., while enabling the bribery of
a handful in the top layers, are increasingly oppressing, crushing,
ruining and torturing the mass of the proletariat and the semi-proletariat.
CB: No what Lenin says there does not apply what I said or think. You are hallucinating my positions or something. And it has little apparent applicablity to Black people and the New Deal. Black people in that period were not part of the US labor aristocracy or labor lieutenants of capital. Black people were concentrated in the poorest strata of the US working class. Black people were part of the "oppress(ed), crush(ed),
ruin(ed) and tortur(ed) ... mass of the proletariat and the semi-proletariat.
And, here is what Obama had to say about Hamas, the victim of
Israeli's evil attacks--not to speak of the civilians who are
suffering "collateral damage":
"My position on Hamas is indistinguishable from the position of
Hillary Clinton or John McCain. I said they are a terrorist
organization and I've repeatedly condemned them. I've repeatedly
said, and I mean what I say: since they are a terrorist organization,
we should not be dealing with them until they recognize Israel,
renounce terrorism, and abide by previous agreements."
CB: This is demogogy and prevarication ( subtle lying). Obama didn't say this after the recent Israeli attack , as you imply
Here's CPUSA's statement on same:
Dear friends and comrades,
Click on this link or see below for a Party statement on the events in the
CPUSA Condemns Gaza Attacks
Issued by the Communist Party, USA
The Communist Party USA (CPUSA) emphatically condemns the continuing Israeli
air strikes in Gaza, which have left hundreds dead and over a thousand
wounded. The hundreds of Israeli air strikes have been carried out with a total
disregard for the safety of civilians and institutions and are the latest phase
in a campaign to blockade the economy of Gaza and deny the people access to
basic necessities. Israel's disproportionate response to the resumption of
the Hamas rocket firings into Israel after the six-month ceasefire agreement
expired, dramatically underscored the Bush Administration's sidetracking of
diplomatic efforts and negotiations. In fact, the US government has provided the
basis for Israel's military action with continued military aid and supplies.
The Communist Party of Israel has suggested that the current Israeli attacks
are a demagogic move related to the current electoral campaign in that
country, as well as perhaps being intended to present the incoming Obama
administration with a fait accompli, making it more difficult for Obama to adopt a new
approach to the Israel-Palestine issue.
The CPUSA denounces the Bush administration for the verbal and material
support it is now rendering to the Israeli aggression. We condemn all attacks on
civilians whatever the cause or intention. We call on all peace-minded people
in the U.S. to demand an end to the Israeli air strikes, end threats of a
ground assault into Palestine, along with an end to Hamas rocket attacks, and
to call on the incoming Obama administration to make a radical change in US
policy on the Israel-Palestine issue, and to pressure the Israeli government to
return to honest negotiations toward a two-state solution.
1. Contact the White House to protest the attack and demand emergency
negotiations for an immediate cease-fire. Call 202-456-1111 or send an email to
_comments at whitehouse.gov_ (mailto:comments at whitehouse.gov) .
2. Contact your Representative and Senators in Congress at 202-224-3121.
3. Call upon President-Elect Obama to pursue a new U.S. policy toward
Israel/Palestine and send a message at _www.change.gov_ (http://www.change.gov/)
4. Join one of the many local actions protesting the assault on Gaza.
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