[Marxism] Cubans see hope for change in Obama - Sent UsingGoogle Toolbar

yossi schwartz ssschwartz8 at gmail.com
Mon Jun 16 10:23:19 MDT 2008

2008/6/16, David Picón Álvarez <david at miradoiro.com>:
> From: "yossi schwartz" <ssschwartz8 at gmail.com>
> > The Cuban revolution of 1959 was not a workers revolution and only the
> > working class can liberate itself by overthrowing the capitalist state
> and
> > replace it with a workers state-a transition to a socialist society. The
> > Cuban revolution was a bourgeois democratic revolution that solved partly
> > the task of the democratic revolution. These reforms are now under
> attack.
> Oh, really? The Cuban revolution had a bourgeois character? I'm really
> curious then, to know where the attributes of the bourgeois state are in
> Cuba. We could start from that minor point of a capitalist bourgeois state,
> like the bourgeoisie! Where are the private owners of capital, of the means
> of production, in Cuba? Clearly the Cuban capitalists who got expropriated
> by the revolution disagree with the assessment that it was a bourgeois
> revolution. How about other characteristics of a bourgeois state, like a
> nominally democratic multi-party system? Strong legal protections for
> private property in particular in the sphere of the means of production?
> Free enterprise? An economy based firmly on surplus value extraction,
> profit-driven and grounded on the law of value? The elimination of the
> obstacles to a market-based system under which workers can be freely hired
> and fired by capitalist firms? I'm looking forward to be enlightened on
> these points.
> --David.
> For many years the same argument about the class nature of the USSR was
> very common. The favorite argument was that there is no private capital as
> the state had the ownership.
>  Yet when the Stalinist regime collapsed in the early 1990s and East
> Europe earlier  it came as a shock for all of the same people who argued
> that the USSR was a socialist or at least a degenerated workers state. The
> same bureaucracy simply replaced the form of ownership.
> Since the 1917 revolution was a workers revolution when did the counter
> revolution happened? In 1991? This is a reformist theory since the state was
> not  over thrown by a counter revolution  at  that time. So was it a
> gradual process? This runs against any elementary Marxism( see Lenin: state
> and revolution)
> The same argument was raise for years  by  many regarding China  and today
> you have to live somewhere else, outside this earth to believe it.
> Was the Chinese revolution a socialist revolution? If you think so, when
> and how did it change its class character? Or is this state a workers state?
> What it seems to me the problem with your argument is that you assume that
> :
> Not a revolutionary working class party  organizing the most  politically
> advanced workers must lead the working class and this party can   be
> substituted by Stalinists or left wing  third world nationalists.
> Clearly in the case of China the social base of the Maoists was the
> peasantry. Thus some other  class than the working class can replaced the
> working class.
> In Cuba during the guerrilla struggle in the mountains the Cuban Communist
> party controlling the working class supported Batista and opposed Castro.
> This was not a working class revolution.
> You further must assume that capitalism at this epoch is still in the form
> of "free" market and that that bureaucratic capitalists is not  ruling
> class and that it  can substitute working class power.
> Where are the Soviets in Cuba?
> What  kind of   a  socialist state is Cuba?  when  the rate of
> exploitation of the workers of Cuba that including social benefit  is
> higher than in Argentina. Workers in Cuba  earn  much less than the
> working class in Argentina.
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