[Marxism] Military defeat/military victory
dwaltersMIA at gmail.com
Wed Apr 1 14:34:41 MDT 2009
I'd also like to beg the Moderators indulgence and ask that *today* be
the last day to discuss this and let everyone get a few more licks in on
the dead horse of "dual defeatism", etc.
I have no real differences with 99% of the people on this list who have
taken an anti-imperialist position vis-a-vis the Malvinas War.
It is a multi-faceted discussion even within the anti-British/US
It should be obvious that *everyone* in Latin America defended Argentina
against British attempts to retake the Malvinas. The FSLN supporters in
Nicaragua *intrinsically* knew the correct side in this battle. That
should of been the end of Mr. Cloke's attempts to defend his countries
dominance over the South Atlantic.
1. Within Argentina, there would always be a question of *why* the Junta
launched the war. Prior to the retake attempt by the Junta, was there
much clamor FOR them to do this? I doubt it. So there is this strategic
issue that had to be settled by the Argentine masses in hindsight (going
forward, there was little dissent over the issue of supporting their
country against the Brits).
2. The bigger issue (perhaps) over revolutionary defeatism. I think this
is, though, secondary, still to the point above. Win or lose, the Junta
was going to be toast. I dissent from the usual "victory of a right-wing
dictatorship in a battle against Imperialism means a victory for the
revolution...". I've never actually seen this to be true and in almost
*every* case the lost by such a regime usually means it's demise,
imperialist or neo-colonial. Argentina is an example. So is Greece after
the defeat of Greek forces against Turkey in Cyprus.
Oh, I had the fortunate experience of working at NASCO in San Diego, one
of the biggest shipyards in the US, during the Malvinas war. This
shipyard was hot bed of communist activity having just ended a communist
lead strike to victory a year before I got there. Many of my fellow
pipefitters were from Ireland. They were all quite nationalist and many
had SF ties although it wasn't a point for discussion specifically until
they got to know me better. The foremen, however, were, it seemed, all
from the big northern Ireland shipyard that had expelled it's
nationalist minority from the workforce in the 1920s or so. The foreman
were all Loyalists. It got to be a battle of the buttons in the ship
yard with the Irish and left all wearing the blue and white
"Argentina/Ireland victorious" buttons a local pub printed up vs the
Union Jack buttons of the bosses. And yes, there was a big dust-up after
work between us and them which helped let off steam for everyone.
My only thoughts on all this.
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