[Marxism] Justice and Sustainability

S. Artesian sartesian at earthlink.net
Sat Apr 18 06:41:51 MDT 2009

A tedious sort, our bloke Cloke, partial I think to the Beatles'  "It's 
Getting Better All The Time," it seems.  And he knows so much about so many 
things and so many of us-- blackberry Marxists, second-lifers.  It's nice to 
know the spirit of Walter Lippmann lives on in our bloke Cloke.

Just to refresh the old mad hatter, the original issue was Barry's 
contention that expropriating the wealthy would lead to resource depletion 
and waste.  I asked why? Our bloke Cloke answered with his sermon on Mount 
Justice.  Certainly not an answer to the original question, and I, shame on 
me, broke my promise not to respond as I think Cloke is more than just a bit 
of a troll.

Just to refresh further, what I said was, not that justice doesn't exist, 
doesn't matter, doesn't make a difference to any particular individual, but 
that Marx's analysis of capitalism and the potential for its overthrow is 
not based on explicitly, implicitly, obliquely, tangentially, on any notion, 
idea, near-notion, concept of justice-- and that in fact justice between 
classes is property-based and will serve to maintain the power of the 
property-owners.  In essence, all the justice in the world,  doesn't change 
the demands, the logic,  and the necessary brutality of capital 

And after he cited Ecuador, I cited Ecuador, but it seems Ecuador has now 
dropped out of the discussion in this first life, to be replaced by the 
anti-lumpen laws of 1808 and  the sayings of Samuel Johnston, which I'm sure 
are available online.

And with that I repledge to refrain from answering our bloke Cloke's  For 
Whom the Bell Trolls.

Or as Craig called him, proving that brevity is more than the soul of wit, 
but also the justice of history-- fuckwit.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <J.M.P.Cloke at lboro.ac.uk>
To: "Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition" 
<marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>; "S. Artesian" <sartesian at earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Justice and Sustainability

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