[Marxism] Eating is not over-consumption
Waistline2 at aol.com
Waistline2 at aol.com
Fri Apr 24 11:34:36 MDT 2009
In a message dated 4/23/2009 9:17:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_shmage at pipeline.com_ (mailto:shmage at pipeline.com) writes:
On Apr 23, 2009, at 8:50 PM, Mark Lause asked:
> Will the state wither on its own after the abolition of capitalism?<
<<< Lenin (in *State and Revolution*) answered that question: The state
starts to wither away at the precise instant the proletariat seizes
power. The abolition of capitalism is a long historical process that
proceeds, pari passu, with the withering away of the state. The state
completes its withering away at the moment when capitalism is
completely abolished. >>>
The idea that the state or any historical phenomena, rooted in and
expressing the long history of property and class, can start . . . begin? . . .
to wither (a quantitative measure?) on the basic of a "precise instance" of
political insurrection - political revolution, is theoretically incorrect.
At least in my reading of Marx, inasmuch as Marx tends to stay away from
"precise instance" formulations.
Further, the idea that the state completes its withering away when
capitalism is completely abolished, rather than the concept of the value relation
being uprooted and consigned to history, demand providing supporting
theoretical evidence to support a concept of "precise instance" and the meaning
of "capitalism completely abolished."
Chapter 5 of State and Revolution is called "The economic basis of the
withering away of the state." The title would suggest a concept of "state
development" - "withering away" at somewhat at odds with the concept that "The
state starts to wither away at the precise instant the proletariat seizes
power." What would seem to change - "wither," is the form of the state, as
it has thus far existed.
Chapter 5 also suggests that property relations and the value relation, as
they merge and evolve in unity and strife needs consideration.
The fact of the matter - supporting by historical documents, is that Lenin
signed a December 20, 1917 decree creating the Cheka, the first of a
succession of Soviet state security organizations. This form of the state,
dubbed the "Red Terror," by Lenin was quickly enlarged during his tenure as
paramount leader, and further enlarged and institutionalized under the Stalin
Even the concept of the armed workers as a new form - expression, of the
state power meant its enlargement and merging - if you will, of its power
within the population. At least this was the case in the second decade of the
The withering away of the state is a concept wedded to the existence of
classes moving in antagonism and contradiction. Communism - in its economic
dimensions, abolishes the former. Human being mediate the latter. The state
withers away as we have known it as an expression of the irreconcilability
of class antagonism.
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