[Marxism] Not 'RoP' but '% of total profits' - duh. Re: US profits collapse in 4th qtr
sabocat59 at mac.com
sabocat59 at mac.com
Sun Mar 29 12:35:12 MDT 2009
S. Artesian wrote:
Exactly how many people are farming how many acres "organically" and how many people are they in turn sustaining?
Greg--I haven't taken a survey. But the point is they produce for market beyond subsistence.
We're talking about actual history here, actual conditions of development. Do you think any medium sized, small sized, organic or non-organic farm would be able to support social development if it weren't for the already existing infrastructure of roads, telecommunications, railroads, manufacturing fabrication that already exists and is available?
Greg-- yeah up here we actually have paved roads. My delivery comes by pickup, but when I lived upstate the Amish would market their surplus out of the back of a horse drawn wagon.
Railroads? Get real. Least possible amount of time and space between production and consumption is the new standard.
Artesian--And how did all that infrastructure get there-- by maintaining 63-66% of the population in rural production? Where are the roosts coming from for all those free range chicken to lay their organic eggs.
Greg-Uh, they're made out of wood with galvanized aluminum roofs on top. We have trees and saw mills up here. Yeah we have to import the aluminum from Massena, another rural backwater.
Artesian--Do your organic farmers use trucks to get their produce to you? Or do they use mules-- where are they in the sertao of Brazil-- or in the most populous and and well developed areas of the United States? Bicycles? If so, who's producing the bikes?What are you sending these messages on right now, clay tablets?You think having 2/3 of the population persist in agricultural production is or can be the result of sustainable development? Of real wealth creation?I suspect what you see as a solution to this is in actuality depopulation of the cities, creating 2 million, 3 million, many million little rural hamlets of sustainable, and isolated, production. Sounds to me like Solzhenitsyn in his letter to the Soviet leaders.
Greg--You sure are putting lots of words in my mouth. Rather than depopulate the cities, the cities need to devote urban space to agriculture. The smaller and medium sized cities could make the transition a lot easier because they have plenty of good land on the outskirts of town. And I'm not suggesting a majority engage in agriculture on a full time basis. Do you brush your teeth for a living? I'm suggesting that if everyone grew something then that would be a VERY GOOD THING. I think it should be a matter of public policy to make it easy for urban dwellers to grow their own food. Then you can be idiotic like the rest of us bumpkins.
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