[Marxism] British Government Refuses To Discuss Sovereignty of Malvinas

S. Artesian sartesian at earthlink.net
Tue Mar 31 19:05:22 MDT 2009

I must say, in response, to Mr. Cloke that:

1.  I don't need him to tell me that I can do "reasonable" critique.  I
don't think he understand precisely, however, what "reasonable" is, so I
would direct him to read Hegel to find out, just how stupid Mr. Cloke's own
criteria of reasonableness are.

2.  I believe that in dealing with Mr. Cloke we are dealing with the
classic, and is there any other kind?, dilettante-- a dabbler, who views
Marxism like viewers at home, in their living rooms, view a cooking show--
and so instead of class struggle we get "Posh Nosh."

3. I have advised Mr. Cloke repeatedly offlist that I was not the one who
called him a fuckwit, rather I explained why Craig was calling him a
fuckwit-- a subtlety lost it appears on our home shopping network critical

4.  Now when confronted with specific concrete questions about the country
in which he resides, and apparently resided, and the development of the
class consciousness of the working class in that country,  our posh nosher
equivocates, mumbo jumbos, and tells us:

"'Demonstrating an advance in British class consciousness'
> would have been demonstrated by a conscientization process from a
> progressive alliance of radical political viewpoints that understood how
> the Rousseauesque social contracts between the workers in the sectors you
> mention, mining, industry and railways were just the development of
> subjugated productive sectors under a globalizing capitalist export-or-die
> drive for constant economic growth to the advantage of none of those
> sectors. Instead of which, they got a mish-mash of self-obsessives,
> antique trades unionists and old school hard left 'thinkers' who really
> couldn't think progressively if you paid them (and some, like Redmond
> O'Neill of Ken Livingstone's group, ended up being paid £100,000 a year to
> supposedly do just that)."

Well, if you push this through a filter designed to weed out extraneous,
irrelevant material, there's nothing left but a pint of the old Alger Hiss,
a gypsy's kiss, if you catch my drift. [check your cockney or London rhyming
slang}.  The original question was-- what was the step forward for the
British working class, and for class struggle on the international scale as
a whole.  And this answer is-- defeat of the British military forces in the
Malvinas.  But not for our arse-over-tits bloke Cloke.  No, it's the old
double-reverse with backflip triple salchow of  this and that and all of it
is nothing but a an old geezer done up like a dog's dinner while having a
Barclay's and a J Arthur.

5, And with that let me say, hats off to Craig who nailed it from the getgo
and in a single word  "fuckwit"-- - a stupid person, popularised by the
English magazine 'Viz' character called 'Terry Fuckwit'.

6.  With apologies to my pal JJ Connolly, who took the time to teach me a
bit of the old cockney rabbit.

Done with Mr. Cloke.... and dusted.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <J.M.P.Cloke at lboro.ac.uk>
To: "Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition"
<marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>; "S. Artesian" <sartesian at earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] British Government Refuses To Discuss Sovereignty of

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