[Marxism] China's nationalized sector has key rol incurrentgains

Marv Gandall marvgandall at videotron.ca
Mon Oct 5 20:49:34 MDT 2009

On crises of overproduction (and underconsumption):

"Starting from these profound but unsystematic remarks, many interpretations 
of the ‘marxist theory of crises’ have been offered by economists who 
consider themselves marxists. ‘Monocausal’ ones generally centre around 
‘disproportionality’ (Bukharin, Hilferding, Otto Bauer) - anarchy of 
production as the key cause of crises - or ‘underconsumption’ - lack of 
purchasing power of the ‘final consumers’ as the cause of crises (Rosa 
Luxemburg, Sweezy). ‘Non-monocausal’ ones try to elaborate Marx’s own dictum 
according to which all basic contradictions of the capitalist mode of 
production come into play in the process leading to a capitalist crises 
(Grossman, Mandel).

"The question of determining whether according to Marx, a crisis of 
overproduction is first of all a crisis of overproduction of commodities or 
a crisis of overproduction of capital is really meaningless in the framework 
of Marx’s economic analysis. The mass of commodities is but one specific 
form of capital, commodity capital. Under capitalism, which is generalised 
commodity production, no overproduction is possible which is not 
simultaneously overproduction of commodities and overproduction of capital 

-Ernest Mandel, "Marx's Theory of Crisis"

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "S. Artesian" <sartesian at earthlink.net>
To: "Marv Gandall" <marvgandall at videotron.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] China's nationalized sector has key role 

Then Nestor, you really need to sit down and reread your Marx.
Overproduction is always the overproduction of capital; the overproduction
of commodities beyond the ability of the market, the relations of
production, to provide the required return.

Overproduction is not underconsumption.  Capital is not organized around
production for use; production for need.  It, capitalist production is
about, and is only about the expansion of value.

I'm astonished that as a Marxist you aren't aware of that fundamental aspect
of Marx's analysis.  It's like, not it's not like, it is exactly not
understanding the dual role, the dual existence of the commodity.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Néstor Gorojovsky" <nmgoro at gmail.com>
To: "David Schanoes" <sartesian at earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] China's nationalized sector has key role

>I am astonished at the idea that in a world where at least 2 billion
> people lack the most essential goods to barely eke out a decent living
> there are Marxists who believe that China, or  Japan, or the US of
> America or Bangla Desh "overproduce" something!

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