[Marxism] self determination for oppressors

Marv Gandall marvgandall at videotron.ca
Sun Oct 18 08:23:35 MDT 2009

You're right, of course. Abbas would be much more malleable than a Mandela 
or even a Mbeki. But such a move would involve the Zionists abandoning 
Zionism, ie. a "Jewish" state. The Afrikanner ruling class rejected the 
notion of a seperate Afrikaner state because they didn't want to be cut off 
from the South African market which they dominated. The issue of an interim 
voluntary federation of anti-Zionist Arabic- and Hebrew-speaking 
Palestinians as a way station to the declared goal of a unitary state is a 
much different question entirely.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Louis Proyect" <lnp3 at panix.com>
To: "Marv Gandall" <marvgandall at videotron.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] self determination for oppressors

> Marv Gandall wrote:
>> It's not possible to conceive of a socialist revolution in 
>> Palestine/Israel
>> which would not involve the participation of the Jewish masses, and if 
>> such
>> were to come to pass, the question of a "Jewish state", especially in 
>> terms
>> of what it has come to represent, would be moot. It's very unlikely that
>> Hebrew-speaking revolutionaries, having shed their blood with
>> Arabic-speaking Palestinians against the Zionists and the Zionist idea,
>> would be asking, if anything, for more than the new state's support for 
>> the
>> preservation of their language and culture.
> But the conflict is not about language and culture. It is about power,
> land, wealth, etc.
> And, furthermore, what is so amazing about the Zionist project is its
> inability to think outside the box. South Africa abandoned apartheid but
> did nothing to attack the power, land, and wealth of the white minority.
> A more clever Zionist leadership would abandon the racial basis of the
> state and put the ineffable Abbas in charge of the government. Nothing
> would change, however.
> But since the presence of religious zealots in the veins of Israeli
> society prevents this, the inevitable outcome will be like Algeria no
> matter how long it takes. The demographics favor this.
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