[Marxism] self determination for oppressors

Shane Mage shmage at pipeline.com
Sun Oct 18 14:45:40 MDT 2009

On Oct 18, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Dennis Brasky wrote:
>  Self determination means the oppressed nation BY AND FOR ITSELF  
> makes decisions concerning its status without feeling the need to  
> get approval...

And exactly how do 'Marxist" Wilsonians think such a granfalloon as a  
"nation" is supposed to "make decisions" (let alone be "feeling"  
something)?  By majority vote in a referendum (by all "nationals"  
anywhere in  the world?  by "nationals" within some defined {by who?}  
territory? by majority of those "nationals"? by majority of those  
"nationals" actually voting?  by simple or qualified majority?)?  By  
the voice of a single universally recognized national leader (like the  
Dalai Lama)? By seizure of power by or negotiated payoff to a   
military junta (like the FLN leadership)?  By vote of the United  
Nations (like the Javan {alias Indonesian} rulers selfdetermining  
themselves in West Papua)?  By an assembly of merchants, land  
speculators, and slaveholders (like the American Continental  
Congress)? By informal democratic popular assemblies formed in the  
course of a revolutionary upsurge (1917 Russia)?

No: nations, oppressed or not, make no decisions.  Decisions are made  
by people, individually or collectively, stupidly or reasonably,  
arbitrarily or deliberatively, democratically or autocratically.  But  
not by hypostatized "nations."

Shane Mage

> This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it
> always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire,
> kindling in measures and going out in measures."
> Herakleitos of Ephesos

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