[Marxism] China investing heavily in infrastructure: Railway

S. Artesian sartesian at earthlink.net
Tue Sep 1 10:48:00 MDT 2009

Your really are a  slug.

1. I responded specifically to your comment that China has already overtaken 
the US in freight transport, an assertion you originally denied, as you used 
the word "possibly."  I asked for the data.  The numbers you provide show no 
such overtaking in freight operations, and certainly no overtaking in the 
productivity of labor.  You are the person arguing for the glory of 
backwardness-- "look how many soybeans China produces, look how much maize, 
how much  dairy.  Why just look at those big numbers, and they're getting 
bigger!"  But of course in terms of productivity, of releasing labor from 
the involution of agricultural production, there is no overtaking.  And you 
can, and I'm sure will report, that average farm incomes in China are 
rising.  Sure are, but you know why?  Because, as in the US, most farmers 
are generating more income from non-farm activities.

Anyway, you have failed to produce a shred of evidence about China 
overtaking the US in freight operations.

2. If you want to introduce data from the UIC, then you should qualify it. 
I suspect however that you introduced inaccurate data from the UIC, as the 
numbers from China's Ministry of Railways reports 78,000 km of route miles 
in 2008.  The 60,000 km number is from 2005.  Numbers are numbers.  Wherever 
the numbers are developed it is important to specify exactly what the 
numbers are describing.  Track miles are track miles.  Roadway miles, or 
route miles are "net" miles, excising multiple track territory. AAR provides 
its number utilizing roadway miles.

I have no problem providing definitions of the terms used.  You might, in 
your catholic wisdom consider doing the same.

3. To use the term "patriotism" when discussing levels of productivity is a 
smear worthy of your demonstrated dishonesty and ignorance.  You should 
never use a term in electronic correspondence that you wouldn't use in 
person.   I think you're a cheerleading, unaware idiot.  I  have no problem 
saying that to your face.  Your rank stupidity and gross ignorance, however 
does not make you a patriot or a shill for China's bourgeoisie, although I'm 
sure that's next on your agenda, right up there with China's perpetual 
growth overtaking everyone and everything. It simply makes you what you 
are-- a dissembler and a not very good one.

4.  The Chinese don't have to "wait" for anything.  Nobody says they 
shouldn't build railways or dams or factories or farms.  We are not talking 
objects, use values, we are talking social relations of production and the 
conflict that develops between those social relations and the building of 
those objects, of those means of production-- the limits to the growth you 
so uncritically swallow as holy unction. as the real milk of "progress."

We, that is to say Marxists, went through the same bullshit rah-rah growth 
cheerleading about the USSR in the 1930s ["Look! no depression."  You wanna 
bet?  Look a little bit more closely.  Not the US style depression where 
output and employment tanked... but a good old fashioned bureaucratic 
recession where productivity actually declined, where accumulation was 
financed primitively by reducing consumption of workers and rural producers, 
the expropriation of subsistence producers' property].

We had the cheerleading then, hundreds of little wannabe Stakhanovs singing 
homages to the great growth, the "isolation" of the USSR from the vagaries 
of the world market. Not so isolated, however, as to avoid the horrendous 
toll of WW2.

We heard the cheerleading again in the 1950s-- Look!  First satellite! 
First dog in space!  First man in space!  Virgin lands! Look at the increase 
in grain production, cotton production!-- and where did that great mass of 
socialist growth go?   We don't need to repeat those failures, that 
cheerleading a pseudo-socialism forward into yet another disaster for the 
urban and rural workers. .

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lüko Willms" <lueko.willms at t-online.de>
To: "David Schanoes" <sartesian at earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] China investing heavily in infrastructure: Railway

S. Artesian (sartesian at earthlink.net) wrote on 2009-09-01 at 09:23:46 in
about Re: [Marxism] China investing heavily in infrastructure: Railway:
>   No, it started with me reporting about extensive investment by China in 
> its
infrastructure, and especially in railways.

   But it seems that I have hit a US patriot in his heart when mentioning 
China has bypassed the US capitalist freight railway companies in the
tonnage transported by rail.


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