[Marxism] Voting with feet, not commendable in Argentina Re: China's high speed rail plans,

S. Artesian sartesian at earthlink.net
Sat Sep 5 07:56:18 MDT 2009

NG wrote:  " Really, S. Artesian, neither did I suggest this that you think 
I suggested"

Really Nestor, what I stated is based on your statements and LW's.

LW said explicitly that both the proletariat and the bourgeoisie were being 
made stronger in China.  The Chinese  "nation" is being made stronger, and 
see China is not a bourgeois nation, but a nation that experienced a 
revolution that expropriated its bourgeoisie and expelled the international 
bourgeoisie, I think it's fair to say that LW's statements clearly mean 
socialism is being strengthened.

You yourself wrote:

" It is one thing
to _use_ capitalism, and a different one to _bow_ to capitalism. The
whole thing when it comes to the China debate is whether the Chinese
leadership _uses_ capitalism or _bows_ to it, which implies bowing to
imperialism. China is not doing the latter. Doing the former, of
course, entails the most serious risks. But no serious debate can be
held on China if we do not start by the evidence that "the Chinese use
the proceeds from their production of consumer goods for extensive
investments in the infrastructure", that is they are bringing down to
Earth the bourgeois fantasies of the Latin American bourgeoisies. If
somebody believes that this has little or nothing to do with the
relative weight of the bourgeoisie in the social structures of China
and, say, Brazil (or, daresay, India), this is a mistake."

You wrote the above lines jumping on LW's bandwagon about the whole thing. 
The fault is not in my dialectic, but yours.

So do you NOT think socialism is being strengthened in China?  Do you not 
think the creation of the SEZ in Guangdong was essential to China's present 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Néstor Gorojovsky" <nmgoro at gmail.com>
To: "David Schanoes" <sartesian at earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Voting with feet,not commendable in Argentina Re: 
China's high speed rail plans,

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