[Marxism] Which prophets really existed ?

Shane Mage shmage at pipeline.com
Sun Sep 23 14:11:49 MDT 2012

On Sep 23, 2012, at 2:19 PM, DW wrote:
> This is ALL solvable by genetics now. Guess what? There are relations
> between *most* Jews in the general Sephardi and Ashkenazi genetic
> lines and little if any between Ashkenazi and Khazaris...

How can you say such a thing? There are no contemporary Khazars and  
have been none for many centuries--and the article you cite doesn't  
claim  to have found any let alone analyzed their DNA.  Of course the  
Sephardi and Ashkenazi genetic lines are related since both groups (I  
contend) derive from a common population--the "mixed multitude" that  
left Egypt during the catastrophe recorded in Exodus. That link would  
argue against the Khazar origin of the Polish Jewry  (the Hungarian  
Jews came from the East together with the Magyars from Khazar  
territory escaping the Mongol invasion--which is evidently why  
Koestler was so concerned with this question) only if the Khazar  
population was entirely "Turkic converts" who were converted in the  
9th century CE, long after the period of Jewish proselytization had  
ended.  And in that case the question would have to be asked--who  
converted them and why (if Judaism was unknown to them) did they  
accept conversion to a powerless and despised religion? (the story-- 
that a Khazar king asked a Christian which religion was worse, Judaism  
or Islam, and was told "Islam" and then when he asked a Muslim which  
was worse, Judaism or Christianity, was told "Christianity," and so  
adopted Judaism as less alienating for his powerful neighbors--that  
story is pure fable, not even rising to the level of legend).

There is another consideration.  The quoted article accepts fully the  
finding of a DNA-similarity among Jews of all races and nations named  
"Cohen," denoting descent from Aaron, the first priest.  The high  
priest of the Khazars was the "Kagan," while the king was the war  
leader, replicating the Jewish tradition of a division of those two  
functions which was already present at formation of the first monarchy  
(Saul/Samuel) and was intact at the very end, when John the Baptizer  
(descended from Aaron) and Jesus the Messianic King (descended from  
David via his mother) replicated it.  Since many Ashkenazi Jews, (like  
the SCOTUS member) bear some variation of the name "Kagan" some light  
on the Khazar-origin hypothesis might well by shed by testing for a  
genetic match between "Cohens" and "Kagans."

> The motive force behind trying to prove one truth vs another truth in
> this ridiculous debate is establish or debunk the legitimacy of
> Zionist claims of 'one people' and other nonsense.

The Khazar theory was developed in the 19th century.  Refutation of  
racist Zionist nonsense wasn't Koestler's purpose in defending it, let  
alone mine.  Establishment of historical truth--about anything and  
everything--is sufficient purpose in and of itself.

Shane Mage

  This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it
  always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire,
  kindling in measures and going out in measures.

  Herakleitos of Ephesos

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