[Marxism] another victory for the forces of enlightenment

Joseph Catron jncatron at gmail.com
Mon Sep 24 21:30:19 MDT 2012

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Wythe Holt jr. <wholt at law.ua.edu> wrote:

But the questions were different.  Does the Qur'an say that women are
> second class,
> or that (as my Baptist friends also say) wives are supposed to be
> subservient to
> their husbands?  Does Islam in any official way -- as do almost all
> Christian sects
> and cults -- put down gay people into a second class, and disdain gay
> relations?

Those are fair questions. But leaving aside whether they're the ones John
raised (I didn't read his post that way, but won't quibble), I'm not
necessarily well-placed to answer them, mainly because I don't see them as
having much practical value.

Not that there's any fault in asking them, of course. I do it sometimes
about my own culture, concluding (for example) that the most
straightforward reading of Christian scriptures and traditions would demand
that all Christians should adopt a posture towards the state somewhere
between that of Catholic Workers and conservative Mennonites. Of course
that doesn't tell me what any of them actually WILL do, which is, for
better or worse, the question I'm much more likely to ask about societies
other than my own.

And any Islamic society, consisting, as it inevitably will, of human
beings, will also have a number of simultaneous influences, sometimes
complementary, sometimes contradictory, always hard for outsiders to
figure. To cite one extreme example, the vast majority of newlywed Gaza
Muslim couples postpone sex, to which they're fully entitled under both
Islamic and secular law, for an additional six months or so out of
deference to the traditions of the local Arab culture. It makes my head
spin, that does.

I could copy and paste a number of verses from the Quran and the hadiths
(none of them bearing much resemblance to the picture John paints for us),
but really, what would would be the point? I would only be ripping them out
of the political, historical, and cultural contexts in which actual Muslims
understand and apply them. And as a non-Muslim, that's the part that
interests me. For whatever reason, I leave any urge to find abstract,
unconditioned principles at home.

"Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen

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