[Marxism] Richard Estes on what the Occupy movement tells us about Marxism and anarchism

Andrew Pollack acpollack2 at gmail.com
Mon Apr 1 06:51:12 MDT 2013

Mark, you should re-read what David wrote. I was a member of the LOC from
the beginning, and am still in day to day touch with it. Everything he
writes about the LOC and its spinoffs, and about the various struggles, is
accurate, both in terms of labor's involvement at various levels in many
ways -- for good, for ill, for neither -- and in terms of the politics of
the various players.

Occupy's main flaw -- now carried over into Strike Debt -- is its anarchist
practice and theory (the latest irritating manifestation of which is a
claim by some of its members, when commenting on yesterday's Times review
of a book on slavery, that debt was the main cause of, and factor in
perpetuating, slavery. They are MANIC about seeing debt behind every
To which I reply: Been there, Prou-dhon that.

There are still many good activists in Occupy circles, and pandering to
their anarchism won't save them for the movement.

On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 11:58 PM, Mark Lause <markalause at gmail.com> wrote:

> ======================================================================
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ======================================================================
> There were a lot of people here who talked a great deal about the
> relationship of the unions to Occupy as well.  The only thing I saw was a
> major effort by the AFL-CIO to get Occupy off the streets and into the
> polling places for the Democrats.  Regrettably, almost all the socialists
> found themselves tailing after them, congratulating each other about how
> Occupy had moved the unions into action.  I suspect this was far more the
> norm nationally than not.
> ML
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 9:51 PM, Louis Proyect <lnp3 at panix.com> wrote:
> >
> ==============================**==============================**==========
> > Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> >
> ==============================**==============================**==========
> >
> >
> > On 3/31/13 9:44 PM, audradavid at aol.com wrote:
> >
> >> Wow! What a load of hot air and wrong-headed analysis.
> >>
> >
> > David, of the more than 100 comments you have posted either here or on
> > North Star, not a single one has been in other than a strident attack
> mode.
> > You are stuck in a 1960s time-warp when every socialist felt some need to
> > obey a categorical imperative to expose another as a traitor to the
> cause.
> > It is most unbecoming.
> >
> >
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