[Marxism] Richard Estes on what the Occupy movement tells us about Marxism and anarchism

Andrew Pollack acpollack2 at gmail.com
Mon Apr 1 07:50:38 MDT 2013


Sorry, I mis-pasted the  last two paragraphs. The rebuttals are obviously
to the New New Lefties.


On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Andrew Pollack <acpollack2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I also read Richard's article. He doesn't just describe empirically who
> turned up when in which numbers. He says explicitly that the working class
> has lost forever its collective capacity.
>
> Yes, as Louis says, the working class does not (generally) think in class
> terms today (although the profusion of small struggles in NY, of bigger
> struggles of teachers in Chicago and nurses throughout the country are
> hopeful signs of a turnaround in that).
>
> But Richard is repeating the same old tired arguments we heard from SDS
> and the rest of the "New" left ad nauseam, arguments saying workers are
> finished as the motive force of history.
>
> And by the way, the CTU's involvement in mass protest against school
> closings show in fact that the working class potential for unifying race
> and class struggles is as great as ever! (and gender too)
>
> Time to dredge up the rebuttals to them.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Louis Proyect <lnp3 at panix.com> wrote:
>
>> ==============================**==============================**
>> ==========
>> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
>> ==============================**==============================**
>> ==========
>>
>>
>> On 4/1/13 8:51 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Mark, you should re-read what David wrote. I was a member of the LOC from
>>> the beginning, and am still in day to day touch with it. Everything he
>>> writes about the LOC and its spinoffs, and about the various struggles,
>>> is
>>> accurate, both in terms of labor's involvement at various levels in many
>>> ways -- for good, for ill, for neither -- and in terms of the politics of
>>> the various players.
>>>
>>>
>> I just looked at Richard's article. It does not question labor
>> participation in Occupy. It only highlights the "vanguard" role of young
>> people, most of whom are not transit workers or telephone company
>> employees, etc., who decided to sleep on the cold pavements of Zuccotti
>> Park and other such public spaces. It was them taking the initiative that
>> created the momentum that led trade unions to lend their support.
>>
>> But there is no "labor movement" as such. I attended the one and only
>> rally organized by the trade unions since the 2008 financial crisis in
>> Washington. It was chaired by Ed Schultz and was a dismal affair.
>>
>> http://louisproyect.wordpress.**com/2010/10/03/report-on-**
>> yesterdays-one-nation-rally/<http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/report-on-yesterdays-one-nation-rally/>
>>
>> The sad truth is that the American working class does not think or act in
>> class terms. The trade unions are becoming weaker and weaker, and those
>> that exist have leaderships that are solidly pro-Obama. In fact there was a
>> lot more labor militancy 40 years ago when radical auto workers caucuses
>> were raising hell.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>



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