[Marxism] Richard Estes on what the Occupy movement tells us about Marxism and anarchism

Mark Lause markalause at gmail.com
Mon Apr 1 10:19:50 MDT 2013

If you read what I wrote, I was commenting the activities and motives of
the AFL-CIO, not the Labor Outreach Committee of Occupy Wall Street.

More fundamentally, of course, what happened elsewhere in the hundreds of
places where Occupy erupted were not really "spinoffs" and the labor
organizations in those hundreds of places were not replicas of that at New

I reported what I saw with my own eyes and experienced directly in this
city.  I certainly have no reason to bullshit anybody about the role of the
unions in demobilizing and breaking the movement here.  :-)


On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Louis Proyect <lnp3 at panix.com> wrote:

> ==============================**==============================**==========
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==============================**==============================**==========
> On 4/1/13 9:47 AM, Andrew Pollack wrote:
>> I also read Richard's article. He doesn't just describe empirically who
>> turned up when in which numbers. He says explicitly that the working class
>> has lost forever its collective capacity.
> I don't know about "forever" but I have been a Marxist since 1967 and have
> not seen the American working class acting as a powerful instrument of
> social and political change in the way it did in the 1930s and during the
> Debs era.
> So we are talking about a 46 year period, at least from my perspective. If
> the contradictions of capitalism are deepening, how does one explain the
> fact that not a single socialist group has attracted significant numbers of
> industrial workers?
> I don't necessarily agree with Richard's analysis but the analysis
> commonly associated with Marcuse, the New Left, etc. is rooted in objective
> conditions. The great thing about the Occupy movement is that it took
> direct action against the capitalist crisis without waiting for the
> organized working class to take the lead.
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