[Marxism] Argentina: Mid-term elections signal shift in political mood | Links International Journal of Socialist Renewal

Leozino Listas leozino.listas at gmail.com
Sun Nov 10 10:40:45 MST 2013


"My guess is that 2 out of the 3 parties would be a lost cause. From
Gallardo's link to the wiki piece on the PTS (Socialist Workers Party), an
apt name there):"

Marxism is a hard science based on rigorous definitions, not a guessing
game, but I 'guess' since you are the moderator you can say whatever your
want with no repercussions besides the lost of any credibility in your
arguments.

""The Socialist Workers' Party (Spanish: Partido de los Trabajadores
Socialistas, PTS), previously known as the Workers Party for Socialism
(Partido de Trabajadores por el Socialismo), is a Trotskyist (left-wing
revolutionary socialist) political party in Argentina. It was founded in
1988, as the first schism of the Movimi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFqEucF7iWwento al Socialismo (MAS) (a
Trotskyist party led by Nahuel Moreno until his death). Within the next 4
years, the MAS would split in more than 20 groups."

I can't imagine what the issues were that led to 20 groups. It almost
sounds like satire but it is enough to make you cry."

You don't have much imagination and you don't know the MAS was a party of
close to 10 thousand members. Anyways, from the MAS only 3 groups remain.
And the PTS was never MORENIST it broke with Moreno's theory of the
the democratic revolution  to go back to trotsky's theory of the permanent
revolution. (1). And to say more about the PTS, it is one of left-wing
partys in the world (please do enlightened me with other parties if I don't
know any), that has made significant contribution to the organization of
the working class. It has led the process of the occupied factories in its
most emblematic factory, ZANON and Brukman (you've probably seen "THE TAKE"
by N.K); who's main leader, Raul Godoy, was elected a 'congressman' for the
province of Neuquen, after over 10 years of worker control of the biggest
ceramic factory of Latin America. It leads the biggest factory of Argentina
Coca-cola, and it's the main opposition to the food
industry bureaucracy that has controlled the union for the past 30 years,
winning 40% of the votes in the past union elections. Among which is the
factory KRAFT-FOODS owned by Warren Buffet, which after the 2009
"rebellion" in the plant and the 30 day strike, the intervention of the US
Embassy to clear the plant, and the repression (4) of the government the
PTS won the internal committee of the factory of over 3,000 workers (some
of which where part of the workers that ran on this past elections) (5) .
The list would go on into the auto industry, the trains, subways,
teachers...

I can understand you don't know anything about Argentina. Why would you?
There are many countries in the world, is not easy keeping up with all the
left and what they are doing. Not knowing is different than coming up with
'guesses' or 'imaginations" about things. Dialectical *Materialism*.

Allow me to share with you the closing "internationalist act" by the FT-CI
(2), in Argentina with delegates from Mexico, Chile, Spain, Germany,
Brazil, among others (3)), with over 4 thousand workers looking to rebuild,
re-build, the 4th international: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFqEucF7iWw






1 -http://www.ft.org.ar/estrategia/ei3polemica_con_moreno.html

2- http://www.ft-ci.org/spip.php?page=2013_gruposft&lang=en

3-
http://www.ft-ci.org/The-International-Conference-of-the-Trotskyist?lang=en

4- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ75ENHtQPI

4-
http://www.ft-ci.org/Kraft-A-story-of-the-class-struggle-in-Argentina?lang=en



On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 2:30 AM, Louis Proyect <lnp3 at panix.com> wrote:

> ======================================================================
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ======================================================================
>
>
> On 11/10/13 12:44 AM, Leozino Listas wrote:
>
>> I agree with you. There is no reason why all 3 groups in Argentina  and
>> why
>> not many more around the world, could not join together in a movement for
>> an international of the socialist revolution. This would be
>> an enormous contribution for the cause of working class emancipation.
>>
>
> My guess is that 2 out of the 3 parties would be a lost cause. From
> Gallardo's link to the wiki piece on the PTS (Socialist Workers Party), an
> apt name there):
>
> "The Socialist Workers' Party (Spanish: Partido de los Trabajadores
> Socialistas, PTS), previously known as the Workers Party for Socialism
> (Partido de Trabajadores por el Socialismo), is a Trotskyist (left-wing
> revolutionary socialist) political party in Argentina. It was founded in
> 1988, as the first schism of the Movimiento al Socialismo (MAS) (a
> Trotskyist party led by Nahuel Moreno until his death). Within the next 4
> years, the MAS would split in more than 20 groups."
>
> I can't imagine what the issues were that led to 20 groups. It almost
> sounds like satire but it is enough to make you cry.
>
> So that's one Morenoite group that the Workers Party has coalesced with.
> Let's assume that the Workers Party is closer to our planet and not
> bouncing around in outer space like Sandra Bullock. Comrade Leo does sound
> more lucid than our old friend Carlos Petroni, anybody would I guess.
>
> Then there is the other group, the Socialist Left. Turning once again to
> the people's encyclopedia, we learn that it is the Argentine section of
> International Workers' Unity (Fourth International). Well, glad to hear
> about that.
>
> When you go to the International Workers' Unity (Fourth International)
> wikipedia entry, you discover:
>
> "It was formed in 1995 by the merger of the Revolutionary International
> Current, consisting of a breakaway faction of the International Workers
> League (Fourth International) (LIT-CI); and the International League for
> the Reconstruction of the Fourth International. Both the LIT and UIT claim
> to stand in the political tradition of Nahuel Moreno.
>
> "Fusion talks with the Committee for a Workers' International were held in
> 1997, but quickly failed, some German CWI members joined the UIT in the
> process, creating a short-lived German section called Sozialistische
> Initiative/Sozialistische Liga (SI/SL)."
>
> Fusion talks quickly failed? Well, imagine that.
>
> Okay, I want all you Marxmail comrades to study all this stuff and be able
> to identify all the different groups. There is going to be an exam tomorrow
> and it will not be an open book test.
>
>
>
>
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