[Marxism] War is for Israel's interests not most working people

Jeff meisner at xs4all.nl
Tue Sep 3 16:30:32 MDT 2013

At 14:05 03-09-13 -0700, John Obrien wrote:
>This U. S. involvement is to help Israel

You just say that without offering any evidence! Most people in Israel
wouldn't agree with that. The remark smacks of the right wing "Jews control
America" propaganda (which has infiltrated into the left through the
right-left "antiwar" alliance and the laziness of other leftists to call
them on it).

>I was active in the U. S. Antiwar Movement from 1964-1975

And I'm glad you mentioned that, because you'll remember that most on the
left thought it important to target the enemy and call for their
unconditional withdrawal from Vietnam. While some liberals thought it
sufficient to call for "negotiations" between the parties as if they were
equally responsible. Of course that demand DID work: the so-called peace
talks in Paris dragged on for 7 years while the worst of the US bombing
took place!! Well, at Saturday's demonstration here (which I specifically
did not attend), the demand of the demo was for the sides (as if equal) to
negotiate a "political solution" which is bullshit. I say we should do
whatever is best to assist the revolutionary side in Syria as we did in
Vietnam. In both cases they are outgunned and we can't just "let them fight
it out" and expect the right side to win. Solidarity is key.

>All Marxists and people of good will should demand immediately an end
>to companies in the United States, Britain, Germany and elsewhere that
>manufacture and provide chemical weapons.  Just as we should all demand
>that Israel, the U. S., Britain and all nations abolish nuclear weapons.

Who are you arguing with and why in this post??

>Israel and not Syria is the real focus of U. S. political and military policy

I doubt it, and so what anyway?

>While Bashir al-Assad is a pig and has used military aircraft on civilian
>I think we should investigate if this latest chemical attack was not done by 

Again, this has been investigated by among others Brown Moses who knows a
lot more about military hardware than you or I. But IF you rest your case
on this one question of fact, then I guess time will tell who is right, and
I will expect an acknowledgement of your error to appear on this list.

>where we hear just the same arguments as Iraq ten years ago

Everytime I hear that, well I know how DIFFERENT the two cases are, and how
the "analogy" thus totally fails. But what I dread is that the NEXT time
the US repeats Iraq and comes up with a lie to justify its aggression,
people are going to say: "Oh no, we shouldn't doubt these claims! Don't you
remember SYRIA???? With Syria, we were so sure they were lying, yet their
fantastic claims about chemical weapons turned out to be EXACTLY TRUE!!! We
shouldn't rush to judgement, or it might be ANOTHER SYRIA!!!"

>Syria has no intention to attack the United States - but the zionists want
us to
>believe the opposite

No one has even said that! You build straw men to tear down so fast you
don't even see how disconnected they are from reality.

> The danger to the
>U. S. is if we want to once again cause military attacks on yet another
nation and
>cause more resentment that could lead to some horrible terrorist attack in

That's a right-wing argument. Whether there will be more US deaths is the
least important thing and is in any case so far outnumbered by Syrian
deaths that it could only be paramount to someone who devalues the lives of

>And we need
>to link the manufacturers of these chemical weapons with our calls for no

You're off the mark again, because they do not manufacture the chemical
weapons but only sell reagents which in every case have legitimate uses. So
the problem is which country they are sold to which can be restricted by
governments and focusing on the companies is rather pointless. I hate
chemical companies too, but I don't hate all chemicals that can be used for
evil purposes.

>American workers who have nothing to gain by
>supporting the Merchants of Death such as Exxon, Boeing, General Electric
>Dow Chemical Company profits - and Israel.

Plus you are insulting to the members of this list by interspersing such
obvious statements with totally unsupported conclusions.

- Jeff

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