[Marxism] The Islamic State and ground-to-air missiles

Michael Karadjis mkaradjis at gmail.com
Sun Aug 17 18:11:04 MDT 2014

Agree with Jeff - David is being a little pedantic about about "not 
any," but never mind, let's make that "hardly any." And more 
importantly,m the only ones the FSA had were seized from the Syrian army 
or brought over by defectors, not supplied by the US or any anyone else.

Jeff seems to imply that perhaps the US or Gulf regimes let a few 
through, but certainly not to ISIS. I agree none went to ISIS, but even 
though Jeff righty says the US "actively prevented" any Manpads getting 
in, he then seems to suggest that some may have let through to the FSA - 
if so, I disagree with the implication that any at all were. The 
evidence is very clearly that the entire point of the US being in Turkey 
in that operations room was precisely because some other pro-rebel Arabs 
were trying to run a "at line" to get arms to the rebels, so the CIA (1) 
made sure to prevent any Manpads getting in to anyone, (2) ensured the 
amounts overall were small and of low quality, and (3) made sure to have 
a say over who got any weapons at all and who didn't. The CIA moved into 
an already existing operation that they did not set up and were 
concerned about in order to control and limit it.

I also don't buy that the US aim in preventing Manpads and other 
advanced weapons getting in was to ensure none got to al-Qaida. I 
believe the aim was to ensure that none got to al-Qaida, none got to any 
Islamists, no matter how moderate, and none got to secular FSA - ie, 
that none got to any force fighting the regime. If any had got through, 
it may ahve opened up the danger of them wining.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jeff via Marxism
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 9:37 AM
To: Michael Karadjis
Subject: Re: [Marxism] The Islamic State and ground-to-air missiles

Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.

I won't try to figure out who said what when and what they actually 
But maybe we can agree on the facts of the matter (or if not, seek 
evidence for discussion). There is no doubt that some Syrian
revolutionaries have had MANPADS and used them, but it also appears 
that these must have been so few in numbers that the Syrian pilots 
barrel bombs had little reason to be concerned. It would have been
different if even a small portion of such weapons "missing" in Libya had
made their way to the Syrians, and there were enough Libyans who would 
been eager to supply them. So the conclusion is that the US not only 
act to supply MANPADS to the Syrians, but (as has been documented) 
prevented such shipments, for the very reasons they openly offer (fear 
them landing in the hands of al-Q'aida).

And furthermore, not only were there were so few but they were delivered 
groups other than ISIS, which is why ISIS apparently never possessed 
and which therefore is why we haven't seen them used in Iraq. I believe
that was the point Louis was making.

- Jeff

At 16:10 17-08-14 -0700, DW via Marxism wrote:
>"...isn't it odd that not a single one of these weapons have been used
>against jets and helicopters in Iraq?"
>Then you wrote:
>"Except that this is not what I said. I said that there is no evidence 
>a "rat line" existed."
>Then I wrote these weapons being...MANPADS. I showed you are wrong and
>factually inaccurate about what you in fact wrote.
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