[Marxism] Stephen F. Cohen is not the man he used to be
marvgand2 at gmail.com
Sun May 4 06:08:11 MDT 2014
On 2014-05-04, at 3:33 AM, Louis Proyect wrote:
> On 5/3/14 10:10 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>> 1. The Euromaidan politicians have always been gung-ho to join NATO
> Except when it got in the way of horse-trading after the fashion of Clinton cutting deals with Republicans...Plus, both Yushchenko and Tymoshenko did not find Yanukovych's opposition to NATO a stumbling block to forming a coalition government in 2008. Nor did Yanukovych's orientation to Russia prevent him from coming close to a deal with EU for that matter. Positions taken by bourgeois politicians in Ukraine would embarrass Machiavelli.
Of course. In fact, it was I who drew your attention last month to the horse-trading and shifting alliances between the oligarchs and politicians when you waxed enthusiastic about the Orange and Euromaidan "revolutions" which brought the pro-NATO politicians to power:
"The equally misnamed 'Orange Revolution' to which you've compared the latest events fell far short of producing a "profound historical change for the better", unless you have only in mind (and I know you don't) the revolving door of kleptocrats and corrupt politicians from both western and eastern Ukraine who have been the sole beneficiaries of the turmoil resulting in changes of government. No better illustration of this latter point is there than Petro Poroshenko, the prototypical oligarch and likely winner of Ukraine's presidential election next month who has bounced back and forth between the rival Yanukovych and Yushchenko/Tymoshenko camps depending on which way the political wind was blowing."
BTW, there wasn't a coalition government in 2008 between the rival camps, as you state above. There was a bitter falling out between Yushchenko and Tymoshenko which prompted the latter to temporarily and opportunistically seek parliamentary and political support from Yanukovych and the Putin government - what Time magazine called a "marriage of convenience". But they never governed together or held a common position on NATO.
In any case, my comment yesterday was in response to your erroneous assertion that Yushchenko and Tymoshenko did not, and do not, favour NATO membership. This no longer seems to be in dispute.
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