[Marxism] Time to recall that the enemy is at home

A.R. G amithrgupta at gmail.com
Mon Oct 19 04:20:00 MDT 2015


As Louis' own posting the other day suggests, there is a technical issue
with this list that private messages sometimes mistakenly go public. I'll
admit, I did not mean to rumor-monger against Mark Richey, but the fact is,
said rumor exists: many people think you are an agent of the
Anti-Defamation League and you are attempting to gather information on
activists the way Roy Bullock did in the 1990s.

Given your bizarro commentary about "the Jews" and your suspicion that I am
collaborating with them -- especially given the kind of harsh invective
that has been directed at myself and Louis for condemning the kind of
privileging of Jewish voices and concerns that does exist in Palestine
circles -- I can see why they would suspect you of being a provocateur. Of
course, you could just be a crazy guy, there are plenty of those.

Re: whether or not you are a Jew, consider that much of the condemnation
against anti-Semitic infiltration of Palestine circles has been directed at
two men, Gilad Atzmon and Israel Shamir. Both men are Jewish, both men are
frankly ridiculous people, and both men have espoused Nazi-like ideas that,
in my view, have been rightly condemned as cheap, anti-Semitic, and
otherwise discrediting and unhelpful to the Palestinian cause. While I did
not agree with the underlying focus of the campaigns against them (i.e. the
obsession with trying to find anti-Jewish sentiment in these circles while
taking less-than-principled positions on Zionism, comparable in my view to
finding anti-white sentiment among BLM activists while ignoring the racism
of white liberals, etc), the accusations against Atzmon and Shamir are more
or less accurate. If it were true that simply being Jewish (or not) were
the standard for dismissing someone, then neither of those men would have
been dismissed and their ridiculous ideas would have far greater sway among
Western leftists.

"They've been spreading these rumors for 20 years,and of course, any
rational person would assume that any real agent would have disappeared
back then and been replaced with someone not targeted as such"

So you are aware of these rumors. Who is "they"? Who is behind them? In
your view, why are they spreading them about you and not anyone else? Do
you think making sweeping generalizations and attacks against not only JVP
but also IJAN, MECA, Barbara Lubin, etc. without the slightest bit of
evidence for your complaints might be off-putting to others? As an
organizer, I too have many issues with many organizations -- JVP's National
branch being one of them. But I generally do not go around publicly
attacking everyone else while pitching my internet list-serv to people.

- Amith

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 2:18 AM, Mark Richey <markrichey at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Speaking of documentation, since you can't of course produce any that I'm
> any sort of spy, you should, on any sober,rational, let alone 'marxist'
> list,be immediately suspended for unfounded and vicious rumor mongering.
>
> What I can document is that 'solidarity' activists anywhere in the US are
> overwhelmingly liberal zionist, Jewish cliquists, such as MECA, JVP, IJAN,
> etc. Such is the case in the Bay Area where most are in the wake of Barbara
> Lubin, the alter ego of MECA, essentially a two Jewish woman operation, but
> which people like AR parrot mindlessly.  After all, they're Jewish, they
> must be right..
>
> They've been spreading these rumors for 20 years,and of course, any
> rational person would assume that any real agent would have disappeared
> back then and been replaced with someone not targeted as such...
>
> But we're dealing with tribal cliquism here, not rational discourse. After
> all, I'm not Jewish, 'we' don't need any stinking documentation...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Clay Claiborne via Marxism <marxism at lists.csbs.utah.edu>
> >Sent: Oct 16, 2015 3:08 AM
> >To: Mark Richey <markrichey at earthlink.net>
> >Subject: Re: [Marxism] Time to recall that the enemy is at home
> >
> >********************  POSTING RULES & NOTES  ********************
> >#1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> >#2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> >#3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> >*****************************************************************
> >
> >Mark Richey goes by many names and is not to be trusted.
> >
> >Clay Claiborne, Director
> >Vietnam: American Holocaust <http://VietnamAmericanHolocaust.com>
> >Linux Beach Productions
> >Venice, CA 90291
> >(310) 581-1536
> >
> >Read my blogs at the Linux Beach <http://claysbeach.blogspot.com/>
> ><http://wlcentral.org/user/2965/track>
> >
> >On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 11:07 AM, A.R. G via Marxism <
> >marxism at lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> ********************  POSTING RULES & NOTES  ********************
> >> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> >> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> >> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> >> *****************************************************************
> >>
> >> Worth noting, many of the Palestine solidarity activists I know in the
> Bay
> >> Area are convinced that Mark Richey worked closely with people at the
> >> Anti-Defamation League during the 1993 ADL espionage scandal or
> something
> >> like that. They think he's a spy.
> >>
> >> - Amith
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 8:42 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
> >> marxism at lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> > ********************  POSTING RULES & NOTES  ********************
> >> > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> >> > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
> >> > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
> >> > *****************************************************************
> >> >
> >> > On 10/15/15 8:25 AM, Mark Richey via Marxism wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> But whether or not there ever was such an unarmed, 'spontaneous'
> >> >> civilian opposition, , hey, it's LONG gone at this point.  The FSA,
> >> >> according to Franklin Lamb, who has spent a lot of time in Syria and
> >> >> speaks the language, is mostly viewed now by Syrians  as agents of
> >> >> Turkey.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > If you plan on participating on Marxmail except to fish for people to
> add
> >> > to your mailing list, it would be a good idea to invoke authorities
> with
> >> a
> >> > bit more credibility. Lamb is a long-term partisan of Hizbollah,
> which he
> >> > would be happy to admit.
> >> >
> >> > In terms of the enemy being at home, does that mean we should join
> some
> >> > rally organized by UNAC in Washington demanding "No Tow Missiles",
> where
> >> we
> >> > can see a bunch of people carrying big pictures of Bashar al-Assad as
> is
> >> > customary in such ranks?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > No thanks.
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________
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