[Marxism] Moderator's note #2

Jeff meisner at xs4all.nl
Wed Oct 5 18:22:38 MDT 2016


I really don't have any time to be writing this, but I have to strongly 
object to Louis' emotionally-driven action against Clay, and indeed the 
entire capricious manner in which decisions are made. Possibly this 
doesn't have to do so much with Louis himself, as having essentially a 
dictator in place to make such decisions on a whim, which is one reason 
that dictators (like Gaddifi, come to think of it) are a bad idea, even 
when they start out good. I'd be embarrassed for other people to know 
that I'm on an email list in which I find such GOOD politics but gets 
run in a way that could only remind one of the very systems that we are 
trying to bring down and bury in the dustbin of history.

I'm sure Louis genuinely felt that Clay's words amounted to an "amalgam" 
between him and fascism, but that's only because he worked himself up 
into a frenzy rather than trying to understand what Clay was saying. And 
then 9 minutes after making an ultimatum, he just said "fuck it" and 
pushed the nuclear button on him. I think Louis needs to attend an anger 
management workshop. Or otherwise to join the black-block and direct his 
anger against deserving targets. I just can't believe someone can stand 
for the pinnacle of democracy that communism is, and abuse their power 
in such a way.

When Clay made the poorly qualified statement that "Its no accident that 
US Greens turn out to be big supporters of fascism worldwide." he was 
only saying EXACTLY what people on this list -- very much including 
Louis himself! -- have been saying: that the bulk of the left (Jill 
Stein's fans in this case) is frequently comfortable supporting fascists 
(or far-right) such as Assad and Putin. Not because they ARE fascists, 
but because they can't perceive the difference between left and right 
"anti-imperialism." Of course I and Clay are allied to those leftists 
regardless, but their leftism becomes useless when it is so extremely 
misdirected, sometimes literally causing more harm than good. That's the 
same thing most of us (not Andrew Stewart, I'm afraid) have been crying 
out about, and if Louis had taken a minute to get Clay's clarification 
it would have been clear he certainly was not calling any leftist a 
fascist. Just clueless.

Louis should apologize to Clay for loosing his temper and resub him. 
Period.

- Jeff


P.S. Clay: your message is NOT falling on deaf ears! But it's being 
drowned out by those who can't listen.


> 
> On 10/5/16 2:59 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote:
>> 
>> Clay, the next time you make this kind of outrageous amalgam between
>> Marxmail subscribers like me who back Jill Stein and fascism, I will
>> unsub you. Once upon a time you were a constructive member of the 
>> list.
>> No matter how hard you try, people are not buying your Democratic 
>> Party
>> sermons. You have turned into a first-class troll and just about
>> outstayed your welcome. In fact I invite you to unsub yourself because 
>> I
>> doubt that anything can dissuade you from the course you are on. In 
>> the
>> 18 years I have been moderating this list, I have learned to detect 
>> when
>> people have written it off. You are right up there with the worst.
> 
> 
> Just after posting this, I realized that there is no point retaining
> Clay Claiborne on Marxmail and unsubbed him. 3 months of his
> provocations were tolerated by me because he hadn't caused problems in
> the past. I guess when some people can't accept the fact that their
> message is falling on deaf ears, they only raise their voice. But
> they'd better figure out whether we are deaf before going on and on.
> My ears are pretty good even though I have serious eye problems.




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