[Marxism] Moderator's note #2
amithrgupta at gmail.com
Wed Oct 5 19:18:02 MDT 2016
I believe the exact quote was "Its no accident that US Greens turn out to
be big supporters of fascism worldwide. In my next blog post I will show
how fascist Trump supporters are warming up to Jill."
That doesn't sound like saying tolerance or cluelessness about fascism. It
sounds like Clay was straight up saying Greens are pro-fascist. I remember
when I (mistakenly) suggested that another member of this forum was
reblogging stuff from a fascist Ukrainian group, I was nearly banned and I
had to apologize to that member and so on. Clay suggested that those of us
who are Green Party people -- including Louis (and Andrew, and me, and I
suspect a significant chunk of this list) are "big supporters of fascism
worldwide". Maybe that's not what he meant, but I don't know what kind of
lefty list-serv would tolerate those sorts of accusations in general. I
think it is obvious that Clay misspoke regardless of how anyone feels about
Louis' moderating policies.
On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Jeff via Marxism <
marxism at lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
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> I really don't have any time to be writing this, but I have to strongly
> object to Louis' emotionally-driven action against Clay, and indeed the
> entire capricious manner in which decisions are made. Possibly this doesn't
> have to do so much with Louis himself, as having essentially a dictator in
> place to make such decisions on a whim, which is one reason that dictators
> (like Gaddifi, come to think of it) are a bad idea, even when they start
> out good. I'd be embarrassed for other people to know that I'm on an email
> list in which I find such GOOD politics but gets run in a way that could
> only remind one of the very systems that we are trying to bring down and
> bury in the dustbin of history.
> I'm sure Louis genuinely felt that Clay's words amounted to an "amalgam"
> between him and fascism, but that's only because he worked himself up into
> a frenzy rather than trying to understand what Clay was saying. And then 9
> minutes after making an ultimatum, he just said "fuck it" and pushed the
> nuclear button on him. I think Louis needs to attend an anger management
> workshop. Or otherwise to join the black-block and direct his anger against
> deserving targets. I just can't believe someone can stand for the pinnacle
> of democracy that communism is, and abuse their power in such a way.
> When Clay made the poorly qualified statement that "Its no accident that
> US Greens turn out to be big supporters of fascism worldwide." he was only
> saying EXACTLY what people on this list -- very much including Louis
> himself! -- have been saying: that the bulk of the left (Jill Stein's fans
> in this case) is frequently comfortable supporting fascists (or far-right)
> such as Assad and Putin. Not because they ARE fascists, but because they
> can't perceive the difference between left and right "anti-imperialism." Of
> course I and Clay are allied to those leftists regardless, but their
> leftism becomes useless when it is so extremely misdirected, sometimes
> literally causing more harm than good. That's the same thing most of us
> (not Andrew Stewart, I'm afraid) have been crying out about, and if Louis
> had taken a minute to get Clay's clarification it would have been clear he
> certainly was not calling any leftist a fascist. Just clueless.
> Louis should apologize to Clay for loosing his temper and resub him.
> - Jeff
> P.S. Clay: your message is NOT falling on deaf ears! But it's being
> drowned out by those who can't listen.
>> On 10/5/16 2:59 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism wrote:
>>> Clay, the next time you make this kind of outrageous amalgam between
>>> Marxmail subscribers like me who back Jill Stein and fascism, I will
>>> unsub you. Once upon a time you were a constructive member of the list.
>>> No matter how hard you try, people are not buying your Democratic Party
>>> sermons. You have turned into a first-class troll and just about
>>> outstayed your welcome. In fact I invite you to unsub yourself because I
>>> doubt that anything can dissuade you from the course you are on. In the
>>> 18 years I have been moderating this list, I have learned to detect when
>>> people have written it off. You are right up there with the worst.
>> Just after posting this, I realized that there is no point retaining
>> Clay Claiborne on Marxmail and unsubbed him. 3 months of his
>> provocations were tolerated by me because he hadn't caused problems in
>> the past. I guess when some people can't accept the fact that their
>> message is falling on deaf ears, they only raise their voice. But
>> they'd better figure out whether we are deaf before going on and on.
>> My ears are pretty good even though I have serious eye problems.
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