[Marxism] To combat left anti-semitism, Corbynism must change the way it sees the world

A.R. G amithrgupta at gmail.com
Thu Mar 29 11:40:32 MDT 2018


" You don't speak for BDS.  Its Palestinian leadership in Ramallah does, as
well as its chapters all over the world.  It is as arrogant for you to
define it as you see fit as it is for you, a Gentile, to tell Jews what is
and what is not anti-Semitic."

LOL. BDS does not have "chapters all of the world" proving that racist Ranz
doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. That is literally NOT how
it works. Nor does Linda Sarsour run the BDS Movement, so Sheldon
mentioning her is naked tokenism. Sheldon is like the people who say "I'm
not racist I have a black friend". It is absolutely disgusting. How sad
that people like Sheldon can simply put themselves in charge of a movement
in which they disregard the humanity of the people they claim to be
fighting for. A sign of what a sorry state the movement is in.

"State Zionists who oppose BDS raise the spectre of massive amounts of
Palestinian refugees flooding pre-June 4, 1967 Israel.  Now THAT is a
demonizing image of Palestinians that SDUSA's support for BDS is designed
to counter.  We point out that just as Jew have not flooded Israel under
the Law of Return, there is no reason to believe Palestinians will either."

Implying that if they *did*, it would be a problem (or "tricky" to use
Ranz' bizarro rhetoric), which of course it would be for Zionists and other
racists.

" It is as arrogant for you to define it as you see fit as it is for you, a
Gentile, to tell Jews what is and what is not anti-Semitic."

And I suppose it is arrogant for me as a non-white person to tell David
Duke what is and isn't a threat to his master race as well. The sheer
arrogance and fragility of a racist. So long as Zionists -- of all stripes
-- use "anti-Semitism" to defend their chauvinism, the rest of us have a
right and an obligation to criticize. Let alone when they begin placing
themselves in charge of other movements with cheap tokenism and bad
analysis.

Amith R. Gupta



On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Sheldon Ranz <sranz18 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Do you have a hearing problem, Amith?  Whe  I say "Democratic Zionism"
> (the Zionism of Albert Einstein, for example), you translate that as
> "Zionism".  If you had chosen to read carefully the resolution passed by
> Social Democrats USA, it goes into great lengths to differentiate between
> Democratic Zionism and State Zionism.  State Zionism is clearly
> incompatible with BDS; Democratic Zionism is, however, since Israel's
> Declaration of Independence calls for equal rights for all Israeli
> citizens, regardless of ethnicity or religion.
>
> State Zionists who oppose BDS raise the spectre of massive amounts of
> Palestinian refugees flooding pre-June 4, 1967 Israel.  Now THAT is a
> demonizing image of Palestinians that SDUSA's support for BDS is designed
> to counter.  We point out that just as Jew have not flooded Israel under
> the Law of Return, there is no reason to believe Palestinians will either.
> How is equating Palestinians and Jews somehow dehumanizing the
> Palestinians?  UN Resolution 194, explicitly endorsed by the BDS movement,
> including SD USA, does not call for unlimited immigration of Palestinian
> refugees to Israel; it puts a brake on that by calling for implementation
> of the Right of Return at the earliest "practicable" date.  This leaves
> plenty of room for both parties to negotiate actual numbers of returnees
> that are "practicable."
>
> Palestinian-American BDS activist Linda Sarsour was presented with SDUSA's
> resolution at a speaking event last year on anti-Semitism by the event's
> moderator, Amy Goodman.  In her response, she welcomed participation of
> progressive Zionists (even those who oppose BDS, who give me a lot of
> grief) in common causes.
>
> You don't speak for BDS.  Its Palestinian leadership in Ramallah does, as
> well as its chapters all over the world.  It is as arrogant for you to
> define it as you see fit as it is for you, a Gentile, to tell Jews what is
> and what is not anti-Semitic.
>
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 12:50 PM, A.R. G via Marxism <
> marxism at lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>
>> ********************  POSTING RULES & NOTES  ********************
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>>
>> Also, last point stemming from my experiences as an organizer: There is
>> something incredibly damaging about people who make public speeches
>> arguing
>> that Zionism and BDS are compatible. This kind of commentary isn't usually
>> a whitewash of Zionism (as Sheldon intends). Rather, it is usually an
>> ultra-left attack on BDS. The BDS Movement has come under immense strain
>> from other segments of Palestinian society for allegedly "selling out,"
>> specifically because the BDS Movement quite minimally calls for a form of
>> non-violent resistance to Israeli apartheid using liberal human rights
>> discourse. Because the BDS Movement does not take stronger stances or
>> articulate a more extreme nationalist, many hardliners in the Palestinian
>> community in America and elsewhere have alleged that it is "going soft"
>> and
>> that they should not rally around the BDS Call. That might sound
>> irrelevant
>> but it can drain the movement of necessary communal support.
>>
>> To publicly advocate that BDS does not challenge Zionism, let alone that
>> it
>> is *compatible* with Zionism, may as well be an attack on the BDS
>> Movement.
>> That is the kind of "support" Sheldon is giving to a movement made up of
>> people whose basic rights he regards as "tricky," before reassuring
>> himself
>> that it's all right because the rights won't be implemented or exercised.
>> This is a problem, obviously.
>>
>> Amith R. Gupta
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 12:25 PM, A.R. G <amithrgupta at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "You don't like the fact that the BDS demands are compatible with
>> > Democratic Zionism?  Too bad."
>> >
>> > Comrades should know, of course, the BDS demands are totally
>> incompatible
>> > with Zionism, as is democracy. Here is the original 2005 BDS statement:
>> > https://bdsmovement.net/call. Sheldon Ranz' bigotry closely resembles
>> the
>> > kind of whitewash that Theodore Herzl tried to present to dishonestly
>> build
>> > support from leftists while privately being unabashed about his desire
>> to
>> > colonize land. As comrades can see from Sheldon Ranz other post
>> > explaining his ideology <http://socialistcurrents.org/?p=2914>, the
>>
>> > reason he thinks BDS liberalism is compatible with his racist ideology
>> is
>> > for the same reason he thinks his racist ideology is liberal. These are
>> the
>> > ideas that are taught in Israeli government-sponsored civics classes.
>> It is
>> > complete nonsense. It is like someone arguing that white supremacy is
>> > compatible with Martin Luther King by sanitizing white supremacy as a
>> > liberal idea.
>> >
>> > And of course, despite Sheldon's bizarre comments it is important for
>> > comrades to call out those who put themselves in charge of leaderless
>> > movements.There is absolutely nothing supportive about Sheldon's
>> > statements. They are openly racist. They defend the rights of
>> Palestinians
>> > by saying they won't actually be implemented. Even assuming that it is
>> true
>> > as a strategic matter, there is absolutely no reason that someone on the
>> > Left, let alone someone involved with the Palestine solidarity movement,
>> > should be validating the notion that there is something wrong with
>> > Palestinians returning to present-day Israel. Imagine someone who puts
>> > himself in charge of the immigrants rights movement and then gives
>> speeches
>> > saying "Don't worry immigrants won't actually come here so go ahead and
>> > keep being xenophobic, it's totally fine". That is quite literally what
>> > Sheldon argues about the "tricky" demand that Palestinians be entitled
>> to
>> > return to their own lands without being stopped by a colonial border.
>> >
>> > Those of you who followed the controversy about the Chicago Dyke March
>> > know that it was, in fact, slanderous, as I documented here:
>> > http://mondoweiss.net/2017/07/semitism-disproved-accounts/
>> >
>> > We should question why someone who pretends to support Palestine as a
>> > "Zionist" would defend the smears of a self-declared pro-Israel lobbyist
>> > who has literally done the same thing multiple times. For example, the
>> > woman who lied about the Chicago Dyke March also falsely claimed that
>> > leftists disrupted a Jewish prayer service when they actually disrupted
>> a
>> > pro-Israel lobbying reception: https://jqyouth.
>> > blogspot.com/2016/01/jqy-at-national-lgbtq-creating-change.html
>> >
>> > Whether it comes from active Zionist advocates or Zionist "allies" like
>> > Sheldon Ranz, it should be rejected. I don't even know why I would have
>> to
>> > argue this on a Marxist list-serv. Zionists are not friends of the left,
>> > they are racist poison and if Sheldon's comments about Palestinians had
>> > been made about Jews there would be no ambiguity about how unwelcome he
>> > should be.
>> >
>> > Amith R. Gupta
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 10:29 AM, Louis Proyect via Marxism <
>> > marxism at lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >> ********************  POSTING RULES & NOTES  ********************
>> >> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
>> >> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived.
>> >> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern.
>> >> *****************************************************************
>> >>
>> >> On 3/29/18 10:06 AM, Sheldon Ranz via Marxism wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Louis Proyect and I have both pointed out in past threads here your,
>> to
>> >>> put
>> >>> it charitably, hostile attitudes toward Jews.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Huh? I did no such thing.
>> >>
>> >> Frankly, my only concern about Mear One's mural is not that the threat
>> it
>> >> poses to the Jews but to the left. I get angry over Corbyn's lack of
>> >> defense, to put it into a sports context, not over his supposedly
>> >> encouraging pogroms. If you really want to understand what
>> anti-Semitism
>> >> can do, go see the movie "A Bag of Marbles" about 2 boys who denied
>> being
>> >> Jewish during the Vichy regime.
>> >>
>> >> My main interest is in building the left. That is why I write
>> criticisms
>> >> of ultraleftism, such as embodied in the "punch a Nazi" tropes or
>> George
>> >> C-M's appearances on the Tucker Carlson show.
>> >>
>> >> I am absolutely in favor of Corbyn becoming the Prime Minister of
>> >> England. Anything that gets in the way has to be moved aside. He has
>> >> surrounded himself with the conspiracy-mongering louts of the Stop the
>> War
>> >> Coalition. They are not acting as the proper antenna he needs to ward
>> off
>> >> these threats. In fact, they serve as blinders.
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